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Why Do Airplanes Crash?

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4713082874_eb3b402a23Airplane safety has improved significantly, but there are improvements that can still be made to remove the fear that many people feel when boarding a plane. Author Dave Soucie joins Jason Hartman on this episode to talk about advances in safety and what still needs to be done. The biggest concern today is complacency, while the biggest improvement has been the implementation of Aviation Safety Information Analysis & Sharing (ASIAS), which allows for the exchange of information on precursors that may cause accidents down the road. David’s take on this is that there is a lot of room for improvement yet. He states that even the passengers are part of the safety system, stressing they need to be aware and if they see something concerning, be bold and speak up. David describes the FAA’s responsibilities and the standard regulations around the world. He also talks about the importance of the TSA, not disregarding blatant overstepping by some TSA agents, but the necessity of keeping airspace safe.

There have been many horrific airline crashes and David tells the stories behind those crashes. The way accidents are most often looked at is pilot error. But David asks the question, what caused the problem in the first place that resulted in a pilot needing to troubleshoot? The initial cause can be critical, such as faulty equipment that the airline companies know need to be replaced, but choose not to do immediately. David and Jason close with general aviation tips and advice. Airplane crashes may be rare, but they do happen, and they’re usually fatal. David Soucie insists that most of these deaths could be prevented.

Soucie’s worked in the cockpit, on the hanger floor, within the aviation boardroom, and inside the Washington D.C. beltway. He’s seen death up close and personal ─ deaths of colleagues and friends that might have been prevented if he had approved certain safety measures in the aircraft they were handling. This memoir is a gripping description of what Soucie saw and experienced as he worked in the aviation industry. He’s now focused on understanding the hazards and risks of air travel. As such, he is a regular consultant on the topic, from advising the Obama administration on airline safety management systems to taking a leading role as industry representative in the congressionally funded NextGen interdepartmental initiative to examine the challenges of aviation in the near future, not only for the Department of Transportation, but also for the departments of defense and Homeland Security, NASA, and the Office of National Intelligence. Since leaving the FAA in 2006, Soucie has analyzed nearly every major air disaster. From January 2007 to June 2010, there were 240 commercial airplane accidents, 28 crashes on scheduled airlines that resulted in 1,795 deaths.

Narrator: Welcome to the Holistic Survival Show with Jason Hartman. The economic storm brewing around the world is set to spill into all aspects of our lives. Are you prepared? Where are you going to turn for the critical life skills necessary for you to survive and prosper? The Holistic Survival Show is your family’s insurance for a better life. Jason will teach you to think independently, to understand threats and how to create the ultimate action plan. Sudden change or worst case scenario, you’ll be ready. Welcome to Holistic Survival, your key resource for protecting the people, places and profits you care about in uncertain times. Ladies and gentlemen, your host Jason Hartman.

Jason Hartman: Welcome to the Holistic Survival Show. This is your host Jason Hartman, where we talk about protecting the people places and profits you care about in these uncertain times. We have a great interview for you today. And we will be back with that in less than 60 seconds on the Holistic Survival Show. And by the way, be sure to visit our website at HolisticSurvival.com. You can subscribe to our blog, which is totally free, has loads of great information, and there’s just a lot of good content for you on the site, so make sure you take advantage of that at HolisticSurvival.com. We’ll be right back.

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Start of Interview with David Soucie

Jason Hartman: It’s my pleasure to welcome David Soucie to the show. He is the author of Why Planes Crash, and as a former FAA investigator and inspector, he is certainly an expert on making the skies safer. We’ll talk about commercial aviation and a little bit on general aviation as well. David welcome. How are you?

David Soucie: Great. Thanks for having me on your show.

Jason Hartman: Well the pleasure is all mine. So it seems, at least in the commercial realm, airplane safety or maybe airline safety I should say, has improved so much over the years and it just doesn’t seem to be much of a concern anymore in the commercial realm. Would that be a fair statement? Of course it’s a concern, because there are crashes, but they’re pretty rare nowadays aren’t they?

David Soucie: Yeah they are rare. And it has improved significantly. I was with the FAA for 17 years and during that time I saw a lot of projects that improved safety. There’s a lot of projects that we did that had no impact on safety, which is a little frustrating at times, but we kept trying and I think that we’ve really improved safety quite a deal.

Jason Hartman: What have been some of the big jumps in improvements over the years, and understanding why crashes, maybe just talk about some of the major causes and the way they’ve resolved those.

David Soucie: Well I think the biggest improvement has been the Aviation Safety Information Analysis System – it’s called ASIAS. And that’s the way in which we share information about precursors, things to look at, what might change that might cause an accident down the road. But that project was built on a lot of fatalities and a lot of accidents. And my look at this is that we really need to change the way that we look at improving safety. Even though it’s safe right now, there’s a lot of room for improvement and I’m worried that the safer we feel the more vulnerable we become.

Jason Hartman: Well that’s actually a good point because we become complacent. Napoleon has that great quote, “the most dangerous moment comes with victory” and if we feel that we’ve been victorious over most safety problems, that may be the problem, that complacency. Right?

David Soucie: Yes that’s exactly right. In fact, seven days before the gulf tragedy of the oil spill down there, I’d been asked to go back and speak with those groups that do that type of work.

Jason Hartman: You’re talking about the BP oil spill?

David Soucie: Yes, the BP oil spill in the gulf. And seven days before that occurred, all the management had flown out to the platform and given a great award to those people who were managing that platform because they’d gone so long without a safety incident. Seven days before one of the worst catastrophes of all time.

Jason Hartman: Yeah, really ironic. So what are some of the areas of biggest concern nowadays, safety wise?

David Soucie: Well that being one, just complacency – not looking around and not understanding that people that fly on the airplanes, all the passengers, everyone that’s involved with that airplane is part of the safety system. I fly a lot, and when I do I look around and I try to talk to the people next to me and get to know them and see what they’re doing and where they’re going. And they think that I’m just being intrusive, when in fact what I’m really doing is trying to make sure that they’re aware of what’s going on and make sure that I know that I’m not sitting next to a terrorist or whatever.

But importantly as well, I look over and they’re looking at their iPhones or they’re looking at their computers and they’re completely removed from their environment. They don’t understand where they are and what they’re doing. They’re flying through the air at near the speed of sound a couple miles above the earth. And they’re sitting there just completely relaxed and have no idea that there’s any kind of risk around them. Two or three accidents have been prevented by people who were aware and noticed that there was smoke coming out from above the…

We’ll take one example: the gentlemen as they were taxiing out, he already had his belts on and everybody’s sitting down, and you go taxiing out and he sees this mist coming out from the top above the baggage compartment area, storage, and he’s concerned and looked and looked, and he asked the guy next to them and he goes, oh that’s just steam, we’re flying out of a high humidity area so that’s nothing to worry about. He got more and more concerned and realized, you know I think I smell smoke too, and eventually he got so concerned that he unbuckled his belt and went up to the flight attendant and told her and she of course told him “Get back in your seat. Put your seat belt back on.”

He goes “I’m not sitting down until you figure out what this smoke is.” And he was almost arrested, and everybody is so aware of this type of situation that they were jumping on in and making him sit down and do whatever. And ultimately they stopped and brought the airplane back and found out there was a fire going on up above. If they had taken off, that airplane would have crashed and burned and certainly we would have had a lot of fatalities from that accident, but this gentleman was aware.

Jason Hartman: The lesson is be aware and secondly don’t be shy. Even if the other passengers think you’re nuts or you’re a terrorist or whatever, you’ve got to get the word out so that the flight crew can take action. Now what was that fire caused by though? Why would there be a fire up above? It must have been electrical I assume?

David Soucie: Yeah, it was electrical. There was a ballast. You know those old neon lights that have ballasts in them? You charge them up then flip on the lights…

Jason Hartman: Fluorescent lights.

David Soucie: Yeah they did use those in the airplanes until this occurred and then subsequent to that, NFA inspector took his time and wrote up a good report and convinced everyone that they needed to replace all those. So those ballasts do not exist in those airplanes right now. At least not in the United States.

Jason Hartman: I’ve always been curious about the way the FAA interacts with the rest of the world. Does the rest of the world for airline safety really sort of look to the US and to the FAA, or do other countries…I’ve flown internationally extensively. I’ve been to 64 countries and I always wonder who’s keeping track of things over in Egypt, for example?

David Soucie: Each country has its own civil aviation authority of some kind. However the FAA is certainly considered a leader in the global environment of aviation. I’ve been to several other foreign countries to help them work out their regulations and as I go there, pretty much what they start with is this template which is the Federal Aviation Regulation. And then from there, they kind of temper them into their particular environments and things like that.

For example, in Africa, there’s very few countries down there that you have to worry too much about icing conditions. So in certain regions down there, they take those regulations we have about how to do icing and things like that out of the regulations and requirements for the airlines down there. So they customize the regulations into each country. But pretty much the FAA is the standard and they work off of that.

Jason Hartman: And what else can passengers do? Awareness, not being shy, is there anything else? I think that’s why most people sit there looking at their phone or reading something because other than knowing where the exit doors are, put your mask on first, everybody’s heard that a thousand times…what else can you really do?

David Soucie: There are so many things that can be done and in my book I touch on a few, but not really. It’s not a survival guide by any means. But awareness is really the key factor. There are other things you can do. For example, one of the things that I get a little bit concerned about, is that when you go through security and you see the guy, and we’ve all seen him and we might even have been this guy at one point. I think I probably even did this at one point, but you go through there and you think oh gosh these guys, it’s overkill, whatever, and they’re going to pad me down or I’ve got to go through this and I’ve got to go through that, and you start complaining of other people and it just makes their job so much more difficult as a PSA person.

It’s hard to be a piece of cattle walking through those lines for anybody, but it really is important that you do that and you be a part of that because what happens is that allows the PSA to see those that do stand out. It allows them to really do profiling and understand, where are the terrorists? And although they don’t advertise this, there are terrorists. There are things going on day in and day out that they don’t advertise and say hey we caught this terrorist, he was doing this, he was doing that, they really are doing a good job. And so part of doing that is to play cattle for a little while and just get through it and get it done.

Jason Hartman: You’re not going to get too much agreement on people that like the TSA. Most of us think they’re completely over stepping their bounds and many people think that the terrorism threat is way overplayed as a way to restrict freedom, but I don’t know. I’m not an expert.

David Soucie: Well there certainly are examples of that. I’ve had a couple of examples myself where we had to approach TSA agents and tell them they’re doing this thing the wrong way and get them out of the system because they just didn’t belong there. And what I’m pleading for is just to understand that there is a necessity there. But you’re right – I believe if we were to get larger and bigger picture and philosophical about it, they are far outstepping their bounds. But you have to understand that you have the choice not to fly. You have the choice to go buy your own airplane and do it other ways if you want.

So that’s kind of how the FAA and TSA view this picture, is if you’re going to fly, what we’re talking about here is the safety of the airspace. Not even a traffic thing where hey, I’m driving a car and I might hurt somebody by crossing the road. We’re talking about an airplane that can actually be used as a terrorist device. So you can try to justify that. I don’t personally feel it’s justified honestly.

Jason Hartman: Talk about if you would, some of the more well-known airline crashes and then I want to talk about general aviation, which means private aviation rather than commercial, but especially that one. I think it was the flight, and it was maybe 4-5 years ago, and I think this one is still a mystery. It went down near South America in the ocean. I think it was an Air France plane. And I don’t know that they’ve solved that one yet, and then of course, I think it was TWA-flight 800 taking off from New York, people aren’t sure about that one either. Or any other ones you want to bring up.

David Soucie: Yeah, we’ll go from the most recent backward. And that’s the Air France accident. The report for that came out, the findings for that just came out in July. And I was very concerned about that report because in it, it talked about how the pilot had made an error and in fact he had, but let me just go through what happened in that flight for a second. What happened is that the airplane was flying through the air at a high altitude over the ocean and they lost air speed indication. There was no air speed indication in the airplane at all. They didn’t know how fast they were going.

So the pilot, the copilot had pulled back on the control yield, and it’s a regular yield. It’s not like a steering wheel – it’s a yield. So he pulls it back and they started climbing. Now we can’t really figure out why he was climbing but he continued to climb even through their trouble shooting and trying to figure out what was going on. In fact, the stick started shaking on him and telling him that he was climbing and stalling. But he didn’t react to that, he seemed to just keep holding that thing back. So the report seems to say that the pilot was inexperienced. Both of the copilots were in the cockpit, the experienced pilot had stepped out of the cockpit. When he came back in, they all tried to figure out what was going on with this airplane, when in fact they had just been in a really steep angle of attack and had stalled the airplane and they were falling and they fell out and that’s what caused the accident.

Now the challenge there for me, no one asks the question of why did they lose air speed? Why did the air speed indication do what it did? They’re blaming it on the pilot for reacting poorly and I buy that. But that’s what we consider an approximate cause. An approximate cause is what NTSB, and FAA and everybody else tries to find. And what that is, is the last thing that could have prevented the accident before it happened.

So if you think about that for a minute, yeah probably the pilot was the last person that could have prevented the accident and that’s the case in many accidents so that’s why you always hear it was pilot error, it was pilot error, it was pilot error. But what I do in my book is I examine the way that we think about the way we look at accidents, the way we think about the way that we think.
And the challenge for me is, so what caused the air speed indicator to fail? So I did some investigating and I found out that there’s a thing called a pitot tube, which is a little sharp tube that sticks out in the front of the airplane and it gathers information about the wind pressure and the temperature and the density altitude and all that kind of thing. Well they had had problems with that and ultimately they found out that that is what caused the air speed failure, was that ice had built up on this tube. Now that’s a heated tube, it shouldn’t have built up. But it built up inside where it’s not heated. Because at that altitude for that long, there’s some larger crystals that build up. And they knew about this problem and I asked, why didn’t you fix this problem when you knew about it?

And in the report it actually states that they knew about this problem and they had come up with a new model of pitot tube which would prevent this air speed indication problem. And I said well why then did the EASA, which is basically the FAA for Europe who overseas Air France, why did they not then say all these pitot tubes have to be replaced. This is a critical error, a critical problem. And the FAA was involved in the decision, Air France was involved, Airbus manufacturing was involved. Everybody knew about this thing a year ago – a year before this accident occurred.

So I looked deeper into the report and it said, well, we have to replace this tube, we think this is the right answer for it, but we don’t think that it’s critical that they have air speed in the cockpit so we’re not going to mandate that this happen. They’ll just replace it in due time. There’s no requirement now. That doesn’t make any sense to me. Why would they not? They know that this thing is going to cause airspeed problems, they know that without airspeed you don’t know if you’re in a climb or if you’re in stall, they had no pitch indication in the cockpit either, so they really don’t know what kind of situational attitude the airplane is in.

So I would have considered that critical. I think any human being would have considered that critical. So I asked myself, I asked them, why was this not done? And their position was, and this is really going to be the shocker, they said well this loss of airspeed, it happened 12 times before and those airplanes didn’t crash.

Jason Hartman: Oh my god. That’s so scary. That would be the answer.

David Soucie: Yeah. That’s a flaw in the way we think. That’s not just an oversight, that’s not something that’s justified or rational.

Jason Hartman: And the pitot tubes, that’s not an expensive thing.

David Soucie: No, we’re not talking tens of thousands of dollars.

Jason Hartman: It’s reminiscent of the Ford Mustang and the one dollar gas tank explosion prevention item that they could have used and then they just did a statistical analysis and said hey, if we have to pay this many lawsuits, this many claims from people who die by fire in our car explosions, it’s worth it. Unbelievable.

David Soucie: In my book I talk a little bit about this phenomenon and I call it an atrophy of vigilance. And the atrophy of vigilance is based on the fact that people make decisions in their life, and when you make a decision what you’re doing is you’re using data, like what you just said about the mustang, the data says this and the human factor is this, and here’s how much human life is worth. We come up with these factors and so there’s people, statisticians and managers and CEOs that look at these numbers and say okay, we’re going to make this decision.

What they’re not making is a choice. They’re not saying as a human being, does this make sense to me? As a human being, is this something that I want to die knowing that I did or didn’t do? And that’s a choice, not a decision. When you’re driving your car and you get a phone call and you decide to pick that up and then you say hey, I’m going to text this guy back or whatever, that’s not a decision that you made. You didn’t do statistical analysis to figure it out, that’s a choice you made and it might just be a choice to kill yourself or to kill someone else’s child that’s crossing the street in front of you. So I speak a lot about that in the book and there’s plenty of examples.

Jason Hartman: Okay, just quickly on the TWB-flight 800, wasn’t there a black box cockpit recording of the pilot saying some sort of an Islamic prayer or something and then there was thought that it was maybe shot down by a missile and what happened with that flight?

David Soucie: Well I don’t know about that Islamic prayer. I hadn’t heard that before. But in my book I go into fairly great detail about a friend of mine, Norm[0:18:20.3], and Norm was working for the national transportation safety board at the time, and he came back to me very, very upset on that accident. I was not involved in that investigation but he was and he was very into that investigation. What he told me, and what’s written in the book, was that he was interviewing some folks and it just so happened one of the people he was interviewing was in the military with Norm and he knew the guy.

So they were talking, and they were talking about what he had seen. And he did say that he had seen what he thought was some kind of missile heading up towards the airplane before the accident occurred. After some of that information was starting to spread within the investigation group there, Norm’s notebook was taken from him by the FBI, all of his information was taken from him and he was told that he could not perform any interviews with anybody unless the FBI’s present, or they couldn’t perform any more interviews actually at that time. And they took all of the NTSB investigators and the FAA investigators off of it and the FBI and I suppose the CIA or NSA took over from there.

Now ultimately, they complained and complained because the NTSB doesn’t answer to anybody but the president of the United States. So they complained and complained – eventually they came back and said okay you can do interviews but you can’t take a pen and paper in there and you can’t use a recording device. So to me, that sounds like there’s something really fishy going on there, and it just didn’t make a lot of sense to me, the way that that thing went. And I expressed that in the book. I go into great detail about that.

Jason Hartman: Hey we’ll be back with you in just a moment. Take a listen to this.

Narrator: Have you listened to the Creating Wealth series? I mean from the beginning. If not, you can go head and get book one, that’s shows 1-20, in digital download. These are advanced strategies for wealth creation. For more information go to JasonHartman.com.

Jason Hartman: General aviation. Let’s just kind of close with that topic. When it comes to small planes, I’m sure some of our listeners are pilots. I was taking flying lessons for a while. And I’ll tell you my mom, when I just finished my ground school and was about to move forward, I had about 40-35 hours under my belt – I think you need 45 to do your basic pilot license. And my mom talked me out of it and this was pretty smart what she said. She says “Jason, you are far too busy to actually fly often enough to be good at this right now at this point in your life. Why don’t you just wait until later when you can fly every week and you’re not so busy with your career?”

And that was great advice. I couldn’t have agreed with mom more. I certainly disagreed with her enough over the years. But I thought that was very good advice.

David Soucie: Yeah, that was very good advice that she gave you. Especially for particular people. I have ADD. I’m just going everywhere all the time. And I tried to be a pilot and I had a bad incident, which again I talked about in the book, where I realized look, I’m either going to hurt myself or hurt somebody if I continue trying to fly airplanes for people because my mind is just not designed to be that meticulous about specifics. And so it was kind of an interesting, at least in the cockpit for sure.

Jason Hartman: It’s sort of amazing that you of all people aren’t a pilot. I would think that’s just a natural part of the thing.

David Soucie: It is. I love to fly and our company has an airplane and I get to fly quite a lot, but I always have a professionally trained pilot sitting next to me helping me, making sure I don’t make any mistakes. And that’s the level of safety that I fly at.

Jason Hartman: Well we’ve only got a few minutes left here, but what are some of the problems in general aviation/. Far less safe than commercial, I would assume by any statistical way of counting it, but what are some of the big pitfalls there?

David Soucie: At a tactical level, the biggest problem is that with the economy the way it is and people who own their own airplanes, typically don’t fly as much as they used to. Either they’re busy with whatever else they’re doing, trying to make ends meet, or that they just don’t fly as much because of the expense of fuel and maintenance. So the challenge I see in general aviation that faces us most right now is that of currency. Being current in the airplane and flying it and making sure that you have enough hours underneath there that you feel comfortable in that airplane. Because it’s not like a bicycle. You can’t just not fly for a couple of years, then jump back into it. I think that most of the accidents in general aviation that we’ve seen recently, the pilots have less hours than we’ve seen in the past. So that I think is very concerning.

Jason Hartman: I always heard when I was taking flying lessons that 200 hours was sort of that magic number when your insurance drops, and you’re a lot more likely to be a safe pilot after 200 hours. Is that still the number? 200?

David Soucie: Yeah, I think so. And certainly after you’ve got your original number of hours under you, you have to fly at least 100 hours a year in general aviation. Now if you’re flying in the mountains, you’re flying in other areas you’re not familiar with, then that’s not sufficient either. You need to get out and fly more and challenge your skills in various areas. So that’s something that’s a great concern.

But a bigger concern of mine is going back to this idea of atrophy of vigilance, is that the idea that you can have a checklist, a well looked at check list as pilots. You have to make sure we didn’t miss something, so you stick to the check list. It creates a mindset within your mind in which you stop looking at other threats and other hazards, things that are anomalous, you haven’t seen something before.

So your mind, since it’s used to this check list, is looking for the check list for how to respond to that. So you see some icing on your wing that you haven’t really noticed that before. I didn’t know what kind of icing that was. So you feel like you’re safe to continue because your mind will trick you into thinking, well that’s just ice and I know that I have my de-icing equipment, so I turn my de-icing equipment on and then everything’s good. And you don’t follow up and check to see if it worked, and you don’t look for another place to land, you just simply keep going forward.

And that’s exactly what happened up in New York, in Buffalo, with Colgan Air when the pilot had not had enough time or familiarization with icing, looked out at the wing and said look there’s some ice there. I’m not sure what that is. But she went ahead and tried de-icing instead of anti-icing after the fact and it didn’t work. That’s what ended up making that airplane crash. So the fear I have, the concern I have now mostly for general aviation is this kind of preprogrammed or checklist mentality, thinking if I do all this checklist right, I don’t have to look for any other risks or hazards.

Jason Hartman: Right. Again, it’s a complacency issue. Anything else and any other quick tops for general aviation?

David Soucie: Just be aware of your environment. That’s the biggest issue with me. You fly in the same place, if you’re flying out of phoenix or you’re flying out of California or flying out of wherever you are, you think that that’s what flying is. I live in Colorado up here near Vail.

Jason Hartman: Changes quite dramatically in the mountains and the weather…

David Soucie: Absolutely, absolutely. And understand your own familiarization, understand your own skill sets and don’t try to carry those skill sets into other environments.

Jason Hartman: Here’s one question for you. There seems to be in the last ten years, a lot of variety and advancement in general aviation. Of course the glass cockpit has been a major revolution, but in addition to that a lot of new planes in the works that are really interesting. Planes that are convertible to cars, that are towable on cars, where the wings fold in. just some really cool stuff. I think Samson Industries has one that they’re working on, Cirrus was the first one I think to do the parachute. There’s just some interesting stuff. The very light jet category, the sport pilot license or recreational pilot license which is like 25 hours. That one’s a little scary to me because 45 seems pretty low. But those are all I guess two-seater planes, by the way. So you can’t do as much with them. But any thoughts on the new products, the new licensing, anything like that?

David Soucie: I think it’s exciting. This time right now is exciting. There are new airplanes coming out. The VLJ, the very light jet category is something I think is really exciting. And I know Honda Jet’s coming out with one soon and a few others as well. So I’m really excited about that category. What I am concerned about is the level of automation in the cockpit. And we deal with this in the commercial world and now we’re having to deal with it in the general aviation world as well. And that’s that I believe that these automated cockpits that they have, where the oil pressure indicator, if you have low oil pressure, you don’t see anything on your glass cockpit until that oil pressure is low and it pops up in front of your face. So it’s kind of automated, it kind of tells you what to look at in other words.

Jason Hartman: Judging from the reliability of my own computer, I really worry about that.

David Soucie: Exactly, exactly. Good point. What I worry about too, going back to this idea, is that the mentality that you rely on that computer so much that you stop thinking, you stop thinking about things. And I’m worried that the automatic cockpit is creating an automatic pilot, where we’re not really thinking, we’re just reacting to what it is the computer is telling us to react to. So I’m a little concerned about that.

But as far as the availability of flying and be able to go out…and people don’t know much about this sport pilot license but it’s something anybody can get and it’s cheap to get and the airplanes that you fly are cheap. If you really like to fly and you thought you always wanted to fly, it’s a great opportunity for you to do it. You don’t have to do as extensive a medical exam, you don’t have to have a medical even to do it and be a sport pilot. It’s very exciting that that’s available. I just wish that the FAA and everyone would make people more aware of it.

Jason Hartman: Good stuff. Well hey, give out your website Dave, and tell people where they can learn more and buy the book.

David Soucie: Okay, great. It’s just www.WhyPlanesCrash.com or a better site to go would be just to go to the Amazon and when you order the book, there’s a lot of information about where lectures I might be giving around the country are and what’s going on there. And I’m doing lectures about thinking now. I started my next book – it’s already on its way. It’s called Dare to Repair your Thinking. And it really has more to do with the way we think and about risks and threats and hazards and how we process those. It doesn’t have a whole lot about aviation, but it does have to do with how we think and how we defend ourselves against threats that we may not see.

Jason Hartman: Good stuff. Well when your new book comes out give us a call and let’s have you back on the show to talk about how we think and how we asses risks. That’ll be a great topic. Thank you so much David. Appreciate you joining us.

David Soucie: Alright, thank you so much. Have a good day.

Narrator: Thank you for joining us today for the Holistic Survival Show. Protecting the people, places and profits you care about in uncertain times. Be sure to listen to our Creating Wealth Show, which focuses on exploiting the financial and wealth creation opportunities in today’s economy. Learn more at www.JasonHartman.com or search “Jason Hartman” on iTunes.

This show is produced by the Hartman Media Company, offering very general guidelines and information. Opinions of guests are their own, and none of the content should be considered individual advice. If you require personalized advice, please consult an appropriate professional. Information deemed reliable, but not guaranteed. (Image: Flickr | Aero Icarus)

Transcribed by Ralph

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