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How to Catch a Liar Every Time

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6030597516_ff3681ec6aThink about the times you have lied about something. Were they little white lies to save face or to protect someone? Was there a big lie that led to another lie or that, once learned, hurt someone deeply or caused a serious trust issue? On this episode, Jason Hartman interviews expert interrogator, Greg Hartley, author of How to Spot a Liar: Why People Don’t Tell the Truth…and How You Can Catch Them. Greg explains that on the continuum of normal, there are three reasons people lie: Love, hate and greed. He also says there are people who lie for self-preservation, while there are people who lie for sport to see what they can get away with in life. Greg describes the positions of interrogator and confessor. He mentions there are 14 different ploys that interrogators use that are tied to the ego, love, hate and greed. He also points out body language to look for in liars. One quick tip is if a person seems too perfect, overly accommodating, be wary and trust your instincts. For more details, listen at: www.HolisticSurvival.com.

Greg Hartley’s expertise as an interrogator first earned him honors with the United States Army. More recently, it has drawn national level intelligence organizations and international Media to seek his insights about “how to” as well as “why.” He graduated from the U.S. Army Interrogation School, the Anti-Terrorism Instructor Qualification Course, the Principle Protection Instructor Qualification Course, and SERE (Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape) school. His skills as an expert interrogator earned praise while he served as SERE Instructor, Operational Interrogation Support to the 5th Special Forces Group during operation Desert Storm, Interrogation Trainer, and as a creator and director of several joint-force, multi-national interrogation exercises from 1994 to 2000. Among his military awards are the Knowlton Award. He attended law school at Rutgers University.

Greg has trained government agencies, private investigators, human resource representatives, and finance experts to read people and detect deception. Hartley has provided expert interrogation analysis for major network and cable television, as well as National Public Radio and prime print media such as The Washington Post and Philadelphia Enquirer . Important foreign media such as BBC, and Der Spiegel have also relied on his commentary. Hartley has contributed to articles for major magazines such as Spin, Cosmopolitan, Marie Claire, and Details. Hartley created simulations of interrogation for British television in Torture: The Guantanamo Guidebook, and for the History Channel in We Can Make You Talk. Greg Contributed to the upcoming movie Neurotypical. More recently Hartley has provided expert analysis of what people are really saying with behaviors and body language for national media like HLN, InSession, Paula Zahn Now, HLN Prime News and Glenn Beck. Hartley has made appearances on countless news programs, local TV, and radio around the country. Greg has extensive experience as an employee in large corporations based in the US and abroad. He has worked as a business consultant to Fortune 500 Companies in the US and consulted to international clients. Greg teaches and consults the use of Extreme Interpersonal Skills© in daily business applications.

Narrator: Welcome to the Holistic Survival Show with Jason Hartman. The economic storm brewing around the world is set to spill into all aspects of our lives. Are you prepared? Where are you going to turn for the critical life skills necessary for you to survive and prosper? The Holistic Survival Show is your family’s insurance for a better life. Jason will teach you to think independently, to understand threats and how to create the ultimate action plan. Sudden change or worst case scenario, you’ll be ready. Welcome to Holistic Survival, your key resource for protecting the people, places and profits you care about in uncertain times. Ladies and gentlemen, your host, Jason Hartman.

Jason Hartman: Welcome to the Holistic Survival Show. This is your host Jason Hartman, where we talk about protecting the people places and profits you care about in these uncertain times. We have a great interview for you today. And we will be back with that in less than 60 seconds on the Holistic Survival Show. And by the way, be sure to visit our website at HolisticSurvival.com. You can subscribe to our blog which is totally free, has loads of great information, and there’s just a lot of good content for you on the site, so make sure you take advantage of that at HolisticSurvival.com. We’ll be right back.

Start of Interview with Greg Hartley

Jason Hartman: It’s my pleasure to welcome Greg Hartley to the show. He’s the author of How to Spot a Liar: Why People Don’t Tell the Truth and How You can Catch them. And he’s got a lot of information on this and a few other related topics. Greg, welcome. How are you?

Greg Hartley: Good, Jason. How are you? Thanks for having me.

Jason Hartman: Good. So, hey, first of all let’s talk about why people lie. Is it always just a matter of saving face like a white lie or is it to gain something, get the upper hand in a business deal, take advantage of someone in love or business? Or are there certain deeper reasons?

Greg Hartley: There are certainly deeper reasons. Some people are mentally ill. But even on the continuum of normal, because there is no such thing really as normal, but on the continuum of normal for people, people lie for 3 primary reasons, either love, hate or greed. And if you think about it for a minute, you might think that sounds awfully simplistic. But think about the last time you lied. Sometimes you lie to protect another person that you love, sometimes you lie to protect yourself that you love, sometimes to protect your possessions, or to prevent losing half your possessions in a case of a divorce in some cases. And yet others are around hate or the intent to cause someone harm. And it varies in intensity as to whether a person is lying for self-preservation or they’re lying for sport. Some people lie simply for sport to see what they can get away with.

Jason Hartman: Just for fun, huh?

Greg Hartley: Right. And you run into it all the time. In my interrogation days, of course, people are lying usually to protect themselves from a perceived threat and usually with good cause because when an interrogator’s talking to you, you have something to lose.

Jason Hartman: Now, an interrogator like in a criminal matter?

Greg Hartley: Yeah. I was primarily an intelligence interrogator, but in today’s world lines are often blurred if you think about a person who is fighting against a government. Well, that becomes a criminal issue very quickly in today’s world, so yeah, a combination. And I consulted two police departments and two investigators and done some investigative interrogation over the years and looking at people from an investigative point of view to figure out what’s occurred, everything from confessions and determining whether a confession is actual or false, all the way through just basic interrogation training.

Jason Hartman: So I’ve always been curious about confessions. I mean, unless someone is mentally ill, why would they make a false confession? Or maybe it’s varying degrees of false-ness. But what would they do?

Greg Hartley: Well, just to relieve pressure…I tell people all the time if you think you can stand up to a professional interrogator it’s because you’ve never faced one. And it’s just like buying a house, it’s just like going through surgery. Anything you do is a process. And if you’re ill-informed about the process you’re going to fall for the tricks. Good interrogation is about psychological pressure and release. Much like you would do anything else, there’s psychological pressure and release. It creates the need in the person to trust their interrogator.

Most interrogations you see on TV are screaming and yelling and you see violence and all the Abu Ghraib things and all that. Real solid interrogation is about psychological pressure and solving for needs in the person. So they feel either obligated to deliver to you, or they feel like they can’t resist you. So it’s a process and often people will confess because they feel like it’s the only way out and that things will get better if they confess.

Jason Hartman: Wait a second. That’s interesting though. When I’m talking about a confession, I’m talking about a confession with a law enforcement agency in the United States where hopefully someone isn’t being tortured, they have the right to a lawyer, all of this kind of stuff. Do false confessions happen that often in the US?

Greg Hartley: Absolutely. There’s a very famous one in South Georgia where the young man and I think he was like 76, he was under so much pressure – and I believe his name is Aliman, I’d have to go look again – but he was under so much pressure by his interrogators who were convinced that he was guilty that he confessed to killing a young woman. There’s some body language associated with his confession that tells you that it is certainly not an accurate confession. And more importantly he was in another country at the time the young woman was killed. So the pressure doesn’t have to be torture.

Jason Hartman: But this is someone’s who’s far below average intelligence. I mean, I assume that’s at the scale of retardation, but a normal person with an IQ of 100 or give or take.

Greg Hartley: Well, those people are just as susceptible. And part of the problem is this. Watch a few police shows and you’ll see some of tools of disarray. We would start the confession or the process by simply saying you can call your lawyer and things will get a little tougher. We’ll make this as easy as possible if you don’t call your lawyer. He’ll call. You see that all the time in police shows. You have the right to an attorney doesn’t mean that you have to have an attorney. And so you can short circuit getting an attorney in the room.
My first advice to anyone who is accused of a crime is to call an attorney, first device, because it’s a process again. So, interrogation, I taught resistance. Your show’s about survival, I taught resistance to interrogation at this survival, evasion, resistance, and escape school for the US Army. And on a regular basis, we are trying to teach people what to do to combat the process. It’s amazing how difficult it is to combat the process even when you know the process.

Jason Hartman: Yeah, okay. So let’s know the process. You said there are 4 basic techniques professional interrogators used. Is that what you mentioned before?

Greg Hartley: Well, there are several. Not 4, there are 14. There are 14 ploys that professional interrogators used and they are tied to your ego, to love or hate, all those things we talked about before love, hate, and greed. And all of it really boils down to Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs. And if I go after you with Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs and I appeal to your sense of belonging, first of all if you remember Maslow’s, it talks about 5 categories that start with physiological needs and endless self-actualization that physiological needs are about air, water, shelter or air water. And those things are important, air, water, food, to the point that if any of those are not met, the rest of those go out the window.

And second, you go to safety needs, shelter, clothing, then to belonging, part of a social group, having love and family and that, and then to esteem where we differentiate ourselves and show who we are, finally to self-actualization. And Maslow said in 1943, if any of those are not met, they take priority. Well, good interrogation, first of all, turns your toy box upside down because now you’ve been accused of something and have to defend yourself, your normal daily routine and that façade that you have built around yourself, that whole self-perception of who you are and what’s important goes out the window. That’s the problem.

So now the interrogator becomes a broker of anxiety and deals with what’s possible versus what he’s offering. It works miraculously well and all of it boils down to how well you’re bonded to what you believe and the people that you are connected with, how well you can hold onto that, and how easily you fall prey to having your ego stroked or being criticized.

Jason Hartman: So give us a couple of those techniques, like specifically the names of them.

Greg Hartley: For example, pride and ego up. It’s a great one. It simply says, well of course these people don’t know who you are. When you’re talking to a military guy who’s a private, you might say “I can’t believe you’re only a private. Obviously you’re more intelligent, you understand more than most people, you know things other people don’t know.” Well, pretty quickly the person jumps in and starts to feel good about having their ego stroked, and they start feeding you more information than you already know. And the opposite side of that same coin is pride and ego down. And it is how Ted Bundy was led into a confession. It says this can’t possibly be used. The person who’s committed all these famous crimes is much more intelligent than you are, Mr. Bundy. And in effect, that’s what broke him and caused him to give information about where their bodies were at. His ego was so fragile.

I will tell you that we all walk around in the world with a picture of who we are that’s not always accurate and that’s the problem.

Jason Hartman: Yeah. So, okay, give us another one. Pride in me go up, pride in me go down, that’s really two or is it two parts of one?

Greg Hartley: Right. And the number one that actually works with prisoners of war often is incentive. And incentive is simply giving them something, kind of a quid pro quo for what they do. So, for example, you might find a person who’s been out – you think about survival for a minute – who has not had exposure to things like toothpaste and not had all those kinds of things that he would normally want, cigarettes, food. And you often them that – they feel like, well, this isn’t what I expected at all. The next thing you know, they confide in you, start to talk to you, and It’s much like they pull on a sweater once you get your fingers on the pull and you get that first piece of information and then the person’s obligated to continue because you’ve already violated their own rules. Or they feel like they’re obligated to keep the relationship moving.

Jason Hartman: Amazing how simple these are. I mean, you’d think someone who knows how this stuff works would be able to…You’re an expert and you say it’s harder for you to even combat this, right?

Greg Hartley: Well, in the situation, I went through SERE School as a young guy in my 20s. You go through a week out in woods, surviving, starving, finding food, doing that and then you’re captured and you’re interrogated. And although I knew the ploys, it’s difficult to combat them because they’re orchestrated often and one is nested within the other. And then the good interrogator can cover one with the other and you fall for something given eventually.

So, the key here, if you’re in a criminal investigation, if you’ve been accused of something, the key to me, and this is a good survival technique, is get a lawyer.

Jason Hartman: Right. But besides get a lawyer, I mean obviously get a lawyer. And then the question is how good is your lawyer gonna be which is as the case develops, but what else can you do? Maybe a good question here to ask, and this is kind of my next question, is in just normal daily life are people in our social life doing this to us? We’ve all I’m sure had the experiences of friends who aren’t really friends. They’re just looking to get information to use against you later, which is just evil but…

Greg Hartley: Right. Well, yeah, and that happens every day.

Jason Hartman: Right. So first, the serious criminal type concept, but then let’s talk about in daily life how people are maybe doing this to us.

Greg Hartley: Yeah, I would tell you first and foremost, this book, when we wrote How to Spot a Liar, we put several out, but How to Spot a Liar I wrote back in 2005 with Mary Ann. And Maryann had never met an army interrogator and probably thought it was the strangest person she’d ever talk to. Now she can teach body language because I’ve been through enough time with her, taught her to read body language and eye movement and all of those kinds of things. The tools we try to give you in this book are about discerning whether a person’s real or not. I’ll give you one really quick tip. And this is the only way I can tell you to characterize people. I use the term glossy. If a person looks like a photograph, and I don’t mean looks, but they feel like you can’t really touch them like your Teflon, you should immediately trust your instincts and start looking closely at that person for why they feel that way.

Human beings connect on a different level and people like Ted Bundy, everyone would say he seemed like just this perfect person. Everything about him was absolutely perfect. Well, you should be frightened of people who are absolutely perfect because none of us are. We all have our warts and all of those kinds of things. And what he was projecting is what the person wanted to see. Not saying all people who project what you want to see are psychopaths, but it should be a good indicator for you that they’re reaching much harder than average people is all I’m getting at. So that’s a survival thing in daily life to look for a person who is accommodating you at every turn.

Jason Hartman: Alright. So a person who’s overly nice…

Greg Hartley: Not even overly nice because it depends on where you’re at in the country. I live in the south. People are police when they don’t mean it. There’s an adage in Minnesota, they call it Minnesota Nice. So, people are polite by force of culture, but I mean when they are overly accommodating, when more than the normal for their culture, the reach to accommodate you at every turn. Now, if you’re a politician and you are surrounded by people who do that for a living, that would be a tough one. But average people don’t get that kind of constant attention. So when a person is too good to be true…

And if you look back, I always tell people I have no real genius here. I regurgitate the wisdom of the ages, all of the things that people have said for thousands of years, all that stuff, everything I talk about in the foundation in that, so if you look at, for example, detecting when a person’s lying, fight or flight causes a person to get blood flow away from their skin, away from their digestive and reproductive systems, and it goes into muscles and prepares them for battle or running away.

As a result, when people are feeling stress because they’re lying, their face will be very pale. And in our culture, we have things like people will say lily livered liars or pale face lies, those are all things from our history that we knew. We blunted a lot of that in modern culture.

Jason Hartman: Let me take a brief pause. We’ll be back in just a minute.

Narrator: Want to know what you’ve missed in the Creating Wealth series? Well, here’s your opportunity with Jason’s 5 book set, that’s shows 1 through 100 through digital download. You save $288 by getting this 5 book set. Learn all of the advanced strategies for wealth creation. For more details, go to JasonHartman.com.

Jason Hartman: What about that eye movement stuff? The neuro-linguistic programming, NLP eye movements, when someone looks up to the left it’s one thing and they look up to the right it’s another thing, like where your mind is trying to reconstruct a thing or your mind is trying to recall a thing. So I guess the concept there of reconstruction is you’re making it up out of thin air, right? Or not reconstruction, but construction.

Greg Hartley: Right, construction. I can give you a 30 second class that will help you recognize this immediately. There are two schools of thought in body language. One is an absolutist that up left means this. And one is a baseliner. I come from the baseliner school. I travel the world and had to take tools with me. And I often say to people with tools I have a portable because I couldn’t haul around a lie detector on my back. But, if you think for a second, everyone listening relaxes, and I’m gonna use an American song first, then I’ll move to something else because I know you have a multi-national audience. So, if you relax and let your eyes do what they normally do when you answer this question, then I’ll give you 90% likely of what they do. What’s the fifth word of the star spangled banner?

Jason Hartman: Oh, you’re asking me?

Greg Hartley: Yeah.

Jason Hartman: Uh, oh, I don’t know. Let’s see here, see.

Greg Hartley: It is see, you’re dead on. But what you’ll notice is that 90% of the population, regardless of culture, your eyes drifted slightly up and to your left, meaning between your brow ridge and your cheek bone as you listened to the sound that you heard. And that’s auditory recall. Now, if that’s your auditory recall side and I ask you a question next time that should also recall something you heard, for example in a conversation, and your eyes drift to the right and up, I know that you’re in construct and you’re creating.
So we look for a baseline of what’s normal. And for those of you who are not familiar a song, if you just stop for a second and think about the last thing you heard on the radio before this program then you will find your eyes drifting slightly up and to your left with 90% likelihood.

Now, 10% of the population is wired exactly the opposite. So their eyes will go up and slightly to their right and ergo the reason for base lining. You don’t want to assume that a person is the 90% when in fact they could be a 10%.

Jason Hartman: That is so difficult, though. I mean, how can you notice someone’s eyes? And, by the way, I’m glad I got that right with see. You put me on the spot there. But how do you notice so quickly? There’s that show, that series about the guy who does the micro expressions. What is that called? Is it called Liar?

Greg Hartley: It’s called Lie to Me. It was based on Paul Ekman’s work at Stanford.

Jason Hartman: And I mean is that legit? Is that a real thing?

Greg Hartley: It is, absolutely. And I do a fair amount of TV around court and that kind of thing, and I run into body language people who do it all the time and I ask can you do that without video? And most of them will confide and you know I can’t but video is pretty easy to come by. In my world, you realize I was deployed with special forces troops, and that was a luxury. I didn’t have video or MRI or any of those things. So all my tools are portable.

Jason Hartman: Yeah, you didn’t carry around a functional MRI machine so you could watch how their brain lights up as you’re asking them questions? That’s the ultimate lie detector, by the way.

Greg Hartley: I’m tied to a medical doctor who is running some really interest FMRI experiments and trying to commercialize it at the moment as a matter of fact. And he can even indicate intent with this thing. It’s amazing some of the tools that he’s come up with through [00:17:57]. But like I said, yeah, someone has to be willing to lie down and stick their head in the tubes is the problem, right? It’s much better than a polygraph, though.

Jason Hartman: Sure. But the answer to that question of how do you know, how can you judge these quick eye movements and stuff like this? When you’re asking someone a question, like for the real world, I mean can we really do this? Or do we just have to go on our instinct? Oh, we can?

Greg Hartley: I do it all the time and you can learn too. It’s like any other skill set. Jason, you’re gonna have to start and just play with it a little while and it will take you a while for it to root. My co-author has gotten it down, she’s really good. And this is a woman who never had any exposure to intelligence gathering or any of that kind of thing. I can watch people on TV and see it. I watch the debates and critique debates. I pay attention to what I’m seeing there.

So, the good thing about this specific one is everyone carries the pattern in their own head. I don’t have to teach you, you don’t have to hear from me again. That time, you’re trying to remember what I said, try to recall the last thing someone said to you, the last lyrics you heard, lyrics to a favorite song, and you’ll find what your eyes do typically, in your head, to get your baseline. Now, that’s for auditory and visual is higher in the head. And then people look down and to the right when they’re emotional and down and to the left when they’re calculating.

I’ll give you an example and you don’t have to give me the answer, but try to calculate without rounding 15% of 980. You’ll find your eyes drifting slightly down and to your left because you have an internal conversation. So, you carry the pattern in your own head. We all carry it. So you don’t have to listen to me, you just have to baseline yourself.

Jason Hartman: Right, very interesting. Do lie detectors work?

Greg Hartley: Yes. They’re as good as the polygrapher. Now, realize that when a polygrapher is working, often all a polygrapher is is a very good interrogator with a prop. That’s what I tell people all the time. And you have to ask good follow questions that establish a baseline, same thing I’m doing, and then look for deviation. If he asks you questions that are open ended enough, you’re not going to deviate because you’re going to feel relaxed. If he asks you questions that will allow you to skew his data in the beginning, then you have a problem, too. So, it’s only as good as the question. I think that’s a reason they’re not admissible in most courts.

Jason Hartman: Yeah, right. Okay, because it depends on the question. Yeah, that’s a good point. So, what you’re saying is that the technology actually works of lie detectors?

Greg Hartley: It’s looking for deviation. That’s all it’s looking for. And we know, for example, typically I think they’ve added voice stress analyzers to some now, but typically it’s respiration, pulse and galvanic skin response. And galvanic skin response measures one of the things I talked about earlier, blood leaving your skin. So fight or flight.

Jason Hartman: I had one of those little RadioShack galvanic skin resistance monitors when I was a kid, and you put the two things on – one on each finger – and then you tell the truth, tell a lie, and see if it’d work. It would make a sound to indicate. But now they have as kind of a novelty those voice stress analyzers and people – I saw them advertised in the sky mall magazines and stuff – people put them on their desk in their office and someone’s coming in to talk to them about a business deal and the light will go up and down depending on how a person’s talking. I can’t imagine that really works, right?

Greg Hartley: I always tell people when you’re talking about interrogation or you’re trying to determine truthfulness, a good portion of the reason they work is because the person that you’re using them on believes they work. So then they give up very quickly. Really, a well-known story among my people among interrogators is a guy who used a Game Boy or in those days it was a different tool, I forget what it was called, but one of those portable videogames and all he would do is tell the guy when you lie this thing beeps. And anytime he knew the guy was lying, he’d press the button. And eventually the guy just gave up. Now, why? Because of the psychological pressure and the belief that he was busted. And he was in fact busted, but he believed in technology more than he believed in a good interrogator.

Jason Hartman: Yeah, very interesting. I think it’s called sodium pentothal, that’s the truth serum, right? Is that the name of it? The name correct?

Greg Hartley: That’s correct. And in my day we always said, yeah, that’s about as good as getting someone drunk. It takes down inhibitions and allows a person to relax a little more. And so certain culture that don’t drink or do any of that kind of a thing, you take into account Muslim cultures where alcohol is not prevalent, it’s tougher to get to that point. I have a good friend who was an intelligence collector years ago with the Russians and he said they were great at truth serum because they could outdrink everyone as you were sitting, talking to them. Next thing you know, you were under the table and they were not.

Jason Hartman: Right, right. Those Russians have vodka in their culture.

Greg Hartley: Right, well it’s part of the culture is exactly it. I’ve never used chemicals. In my world, we used just good solid process and technique, and that’s all.

Jason Hartman: Well, first of all, give out your website if you would and tell people where they can learn more about your work and buy the book.

Greg Hartley: Yep. It’s GregHartley.com, pretty simple one to find. You can find me at all of the outlets I have. This is the most recent book is a rewrite or revision of How to Spot a Liar we put out in 2005 and we responded to some questions from readers and then several other books I’ve put out with Career Press that have been…There was How to Spot a Liar, I Can Read You Like a Book: Body Language Handbook. I have a book called Get People To Do What You Want which is a book about just manipulation. All those I think are Career Press and easy to find right now.

Jason Hartman: Good stuff. Well, what other closing thoughts would you like people to leave with? And maybe if you want to throw in one more technique these interrogators use, I just think those are fascinating. There’s 14 of them, do you outline all 14 in the book?

Greg Hartley: We took that out of this book actually. In the first version, it’s there, but all of these are DOD approved interrogation ploys. And they all are based on I think I told you about hate of fear up and fear down. It’s an age old one. It’s good cop, bad cop, it’s an organization of fear up and fear down, the big grizzly, nasty, loud guy comes in and screams and yells and the very small attractive friendly woman comes in and says get out of here you big brute. And the next thing you know, the guy’s talking. And it relies on that whole Maslow’s hierarchy about bonding and differentiating.

Jason Hartman: Amazing how all that stuff works. It’s really, really amazing. I mean, that’s what the card dealers of the olden days, and hopefully they’re not using it anymore, but they used to do that all the time. There’s a good cop, bad cop. It was like the salesperson is the good cop and they’ll get the deal approved, and then you gotta go to the closer, the manager, and suddenly your deal’s been shot out of the water, right?

Greg Hartley: Yeah, I tell you, I think that fear up…In my world, we talk about fear up mild and fear up harsh. Fear up harsh is the guy who slings furniture and screams and yells, but fear up mild is maybe you won’t get the loan if you don’t sign right here. Or I can easily say to a person, and police officers do it all the time, if you don’t take this deal, I can’t guarantee you what the next interrogator’s going to do. It’s the same thing. It works wonders. People do it in everyday life. They frighten you with something that might or might not happen.

Jason Hartman: Yeah, in sales that might be more the takeaway close. But it’s the same idea. Yeah, very interesting. Well, good stuff. Greg, thank you so much for sharing this with us today. It’s obviously a fascinating subject that affects everybody at one level or another. And just anything else you’d like to mention before you go?

Greg Hartley: I think at the end of the day, the big deal with people is to understand where you really are and to think about who you really are and think about all the inputs in your daily life that make you believe what you believe. I went through SERE School a lot of years ago with some really good solid soldiers. And some of them had delusions about who they were. When you get in and you face the interrogator, and it’s much like any survival situation, you need to know exactly who you are so that you’re rooted in fact and not in some false perception, and then no one can take it from you.

Jason Hartman: You got it. Greg Hartley, thanks for joining us today.

Greg Hartley: Thanks for your time.

Jason Hartman: Thank you for joining us today for the Holistic Survival Show, protecting the people, places and profits you care about in uncertain times. Be sure to listen to our Creating Wealth Show which focuses on exploiting the financial and wealth creation opportunities in today’s economy. Learn more at www.JasonHartman.com or search “Jason Hartman” on iTunes. This show is produced by The Hartman Media Company, offering very general guidelines and information. Opinions of guests are their own and none of the content should be considered individual advice. If you require personalized advice, please consult an appropriate professional, information deemed reliable but not guaranteed. (Image: Flickr | renaissancechambara)

Transcribed by Ralph

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