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2 Ways to Look at Inflation with Dan Amerman

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Jason Hartman looks at ways the government controls capital through the scrutiny of recent transactions and purchases of his home. They’re now requiring certain purchases by LLCs to list their ow owners which could hurt the anonymity of your assets. In the second segment of the show, he continues an interview with Dan Amerman, CFA, and author of books such as Mortgage Securities and Collateralized Mortgage Obligations: Unlock The Secrets Of Mortgage Derivatives. They discuss the correlation between the Federal Reserve and yield curves. They end the discussion looking at inflation and self-liquidating debt. about the correlation between Fed actions and yield curves, how to look at inflation, and self-liquidating debt.

Jason Hartman 0:00
What I’ve learned is is you like to mention be area agnostic is one of your commandments and that I love that. I like to look at this is also be when it comes to real estate investing, be age agnostic, who cares what age you are, you can start doing this in 19 like you did, you could start doing this is 20s you can start doing in your 50s I started my 50s

Announcer 0:24
Welcome to the creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You’re about to learn a new slant on investing some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world’s most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine self made multi millionaire who’s actually been there and done it. He’s a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who’s owned properties in 11 states had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow Following Jason’s footsteps on the road to your financial independence day, you really can do it on Now, here’s your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Jason Hartman 1:14
Welcome to Episode 1133 1133. Thank you so much for joining me today. As we dive into the second half of our discussion with Dan Ammerman from yesterday. I think you’ll find this fascinating as we talk more about the future of inflation and the benefits of self liquidating debt. Now, as you know, governments around the world including our government, are instituting more and more sneaky forms of capital control capital controls, where they can keep track of us you know, a lot of this came out of the Patriot Act, post 911 world, it is just getting more and more intense, in a lot of subtle and some not so subtle ways. We saw the Indian government de monetizing some of its higher currency values, so that cash becomes less powerful. We see the US doing all sorts of things. We’re going to talk about one of those today, we see an entire country of Sweden, that is basically a cashless society. I am starting to see more and more merchants in the US that say they don’t accept the cash. So this is a fascinating thing and a bit of a scary thing. Here to talk about it with me is Adam. Adam, welcome back. How you doing?

Adam 2:33
I’m doing great. And remember, it’s all for your protection.

Jason Hartman 2:36
Yes, yes. It’s all for our own good. They gotta they gotta watch out for us, those evil drug dealers and terrorists that might get us right. You know, I posted in our content group or venture Alliance members are in that content group. We use it internally to come up with show ideas and things that we want to talk to you our listeners about. And one of the things I posted in there was an article from Garrett Sutton. who of course has been on the show many times. He’s one of rich dad authors and attorney and he’s spoken at several of our meet the Masters events, his people will will be at our upcoming event next month. He will not be there though he had a conflict on his dates, but his staff will be there. You know, he wrote this article about people paying cash for properties. And this is counterintuitive because you would think, if you were paying now look at I’m not recommending paying cash, you all know that I love leverage. I love self liquidating debt, leveraging properties, but you know, sometimes I pay cash for a property sometimes some of our clients do, you know, we’re all going to probably do this at one time or another. Hopefully, it’s just not like a core strategy by any means. But the odd thing is, now if you pay cash, you’re looked at as some sort of villain, some sort of criminal, right?

Adam 3:54
Yeah. I mean, obviously the only people who have money did the bad things to get it. What do

Jason Hartman 3:58
you want to close a deal at? And you wire cash into the title company or the escrow company to close the deal. What are they going to say to you?

Adam 4:07
Well, they’re going to say, is this part of an LLC? And is it more than $300,000? And if it is, they’re going to say, you know, all that protection that Garrett Sutton preaches, you know, he said, the number one, I believe he said at the last meet the Masters then number one thing you can do is anonymity. And apparently, nowadays, if you buy a property with more than 25%, down on a home, that’s 300,000 or more, which is not an investment property, usually with us, your LLC is going to get busted in terms of the confidentiality and all of the owners are going to be putting the registry Wow, it’s through the US Treasuries, Financial Crimes enforcement network. And they claim, of course, that their registry is private and you know, nobody knows it, but I think someone’s hacked. Yes. As we’ve learned in today’s society, nothing’s unhackable Yeah, right. So so you’re looking at all of this work you did to protect yourself and You’re assets and next thing you know, you buy something for cash and boom, it’s gone.

Jason Hartman 5:04
Yeah, well, it’s not gone. Well, it’s just that the anonymity is gone.

Adam 5:08
Yeah, that’s what I mean is the enemy. Right? Right. So Well, technically it’s not gone. But realistically, it’s gone

Jason Hartman 5:12
v anonymity, you’re talking about the property. You know, big brother is watching us Big brother is definitely watching us. And you know, Adam, it’s funny that we bring this up, because when I closed on my home not too long ago, I never had this happen before, but I knew the closing was coming up. And so I wired from one bank to the other because one bank is kind of difficult to wire from and I didn’t want to have any hang ups and the closing, simple transaction. But this time, it was different. Guess what happened?

Adam 5:44
They asked if it was drug money.

Jason Hartman 5:47
Not exactly. But I got a bit of a third degree inquiry. When I was sending the wire from one bank to the other before I sent it to the title company. He said, What’s the purpose? This of this wire, and I said, Why do you ask that? You know, I really wanted to tell him, it’s none of your frickin business. He said, Well, I have to ask. And I said, Well, why do you have to ask? And he said, because it’s required. And, and I’m thinking of required by whom, right? I told him the purpose, but after getting off of that call where I confirmed that wire, I thought, That is ridiculous. You know, I never I mean, I’ve wired you know, decent sums of money around before and I never had them asked me the purpose of the the wire. This is a new thing. You got to explain your financial transactions now.

Adam 6:41
No one’s gonna tell the truth that they’re doing it for something bad,

Adam 6:44
obviously.

Adam 6:46
What’s the purpose of this? I’m gonna buy drugs and weapons.

Jason Hartman 6:51
I’m an international arms dealer. You see? Yeah, I got a wire this to my people in Afghanistan. Give me a break. Silly. We live in a world where, you know, George Orwell was right. But also, you know, the other dystopian vision, not just the Orwellian vision, but the vision of brave new world, right? That’s the other vision that’s coming true kind of concurrently, right? Where we’re, we’re being so load into entertainment and becoming passive and lazy. And we’ve got that combined with Big Brother watching us. It’s two things in one, you know, make sure folks, you know, I doubt kids even read 1984 in school anymore. But folks, you got to make sure your kids read that book and understand what George Orwell predicted back in I think the 40s was amazing, and it’s all coming true. What Iran predicted in the 50s is coming true, you know, from atlas shrugged. So these are very important and they were very prescient books at the at the time. Pretty amazing stuff. Adam, what else do you think about There’s any other thoughts?

Adam 8:01
Well, first off, I read 1984 in school and I’m not too old, it was after 1984. So it’s not a history book yet at least. But the thing that gets me about this is they do exclude trust. So that’s at least useful. Right?

Jason Hartman 8:14
So you can have some you can have some privacy in a trust. Now, I believe that’s either a revocable or irrevocable trust, right. Either one. Yes. Okay, great listeners, just so you understand. And again, we are not attorneys. We’re not legal experts. But the basic ideas were vocable Trust is like a living trust, otherwise known as an interview this trust, and that’s vocable. It doesn’t provide any asset protection. It’s simply an estate planning tool to avoid probate and probate can be very expensive. All of your assets are exposed, because they become part of the court record. And you don’t want to go through probate. So certainly have a living trust, and that’s a revocable trust, but if you want asset protection Then you need an irrevocable trust. And there are many flavors of this. I have one. And I tell you a trust is a hassle. It’s a big hassle, a corporation or an LLC, much simpler, much easier to understand. trusts are much more sophisticated instrument, they’re a lot more expensive. You have to have a trustee that you pay every year. It’s a complicated ordeal. But you know, again, it may be worth it. I don’t know. It depends on your situation. And you know what’s going on in your life.

Adam 9:31
One of the things that got me whenever I looked at this is Who do they think they’re going to catch? Because when you make a rule like this, all somebody who has drug money or bad money needs to do is you only put 25% down and then the first month you get your bill, you just pay it off Egypt, pay off your mortgage, mortgage, and maybe you pay a couple hundred bucks an interest, but if you’re actually using that to funnel money, who cares?

Jason Hartman 9:56
Well, you know, I wonder though, if you can pay off that mortgage without getting questioned. You know, if you were to wire all of that money for the rest of the other 75% of the value to the lender, right? First off, you’ve got to pay a bunch of fees because you know, you’re going to pay higher closing costs with the financing, and then you just pay it off. And, you know, that’s sort of an exercise in futility. But maybe also you can’t qualify for a loan. If you’re a bad guy, your income is not documented, of course, and that’s one of the ways as probably everybody knows that the drug dealers get caught and the arms dealers get caught as tax evasion, and they don’t actually get caught for their crime necessarily, they get caught for evading taxes.

Adam 10:39
So that’s the word so the government

Jason Hartman 10:41
Yeah, well, it’s interesting, how long how many tentacles the government has in order to you know, catch the bad guys, which Hey, that’s not all bad because we all want to see the bad guys get caught. But I really wonder if you can simply pay that mortgage off without getting questioned or documented or So you know, who knows? Yeah, I

Adam 11:01
would imagine at this point, I mean, I would think it would have mentioned on the article if you have, but I would think that point, you would just wire the money. And they would ask you a question like to ask you what’s this money for? And you would say, you know, I’m buying a new dog. And they would say, okay, for $750,000. Yeah. And then they transfer it and you pay it off. I mean, for the people who are going to be doing this illegally, you know, a couple thousand dollars, I wouldn’t think it’s going to make or break them. So paying the extra bit and closing costs, and the extra bit for transferring it, I wouldn’t think would be a hindrance. If this is your business model for laundering money,

Jason Hartman 11:35
but I doubt they can qualify for the loan. That’s the thing. You’re assuming they don’t have a loan officer on their payroll. Yeah, right. Right. Well, you know, we’ll, we’ll see. That’s, that’s interesting. Are you excited about the second half of Dan Ammerman today?

Adam 11:48
I am it was a really it’s really good one. I mean, the inflation talk is pretty crucial. I mean, when he talks about the connection between the Fed and the yield curve, I found it interesting. So

Jason Hartman 11:57
yeah, he really is a very analytical Guy and has some interesting angles on things. So let’s get him back to part two. Be sure to grab your tickets for meet the masters. Jason Hartman comm slash masters We will look forward to seeing you there. We are about to book our musical entertainment for Saturday evening at meet the masters. I am just debating it’s hard to pick you know, last year we had a journey tribute band this year. I’m thinking it’s gonna be well, it’s going to be Rod Stewart Fleetwood Mac, The Beatles are Neil Diamond. What do you think folks? I’m just trying to find things with wide popularity. And the amazing thing to me, Adam is, you know, I’ve been to many, many concerts. I absolutely love music. What’s amazing to me is sometimes these tribute bands. I almost hate to say this because I think it’s like sacrilege, but they actually sound better than the real band. And, you know, I’ll tell you my theory on that. Let me know what you think. My theory is that they don’t improvise the the cover band the tribute band tries to sound like the album, where is the real band? You know, they do all sorts of improv and they get sort of sick of their own music and they change it around and then it doesn’t sound like the album. And I don’t know, that’s just my theory. I’ve kind of noticed that I don’t know if anyone agrees with me or not. But what do you think? Well, I found it funny. There’s a band that was decently popular whenever I was younger it’s called me first in the Gimme Gimmes and all they do are covers but they do covers with more of an up tempo reaction so I actually heard some of their covers before I heard the original and then I heard the originals and they were slower and not as exciting I was gonna like I prefer the cover cover. Yeah it’s funny how that works out. But anyway, hey, meet the Masters is going to be great Newport Beach, California. It’s just a little over a month away. So get your tickets Jason Hartman comm slash masters, we’re going to have a great time. We’re gonna learn a lot and do a lot of fun networking and many of our attendees are making it a spring break vacation. They’re bringing their family with them to Newport Beach. One is even bringing a nanny. I know. They’re making a whole vacation out of it. I mean, you know what a great vacation destination, my old hometown Newport Beach, California. So it’s going to be a lot of fun. Be sure you join us. And, Adam, let’s get to the second half of Dan Ammerman. Here we go. Welcome to meet the masters of income property investing. I’m your host Jason Hartman.

Adam 14:37
The 2019 meet the masters of income property March 23, and 24th in Newport Beach, California.

Jason Hartman 14:48
What is the sort of the one trick, the hack the secret that really empowers people to success, income property, the most historically proven An asset class in the entire world.

Adam 15:04
Register today at Jason hartman.com. forward slash master. Early Bird pricing ends Friday, February 1.

Jason Hartman 15:09
Let’s break this down and look at some of the strengths of income property. As an asset class, I found that this event is really helpful because I am totally a newbie to real estate investment. And so I picked up so much information. One of the great things about it is that it’s so fragmented, right? embrace the fragmentation.

Jason Hartman 15:30
Jason hartman.com, forward slash masters.

Jason Hartman 15:33
You know, Dan, here’s the million dollar question. And, you know, we’ve seen this kind of reloading behavior of the Fed, you know, reloading the bullets into the gun for the next cycle, right. We’ve seen that lately,

Dan Amerman 15:45
but they got cut off that couldn’t do that’s exactly what my

Jason Hartman 15:48
question was. Do they have enough ammunition to and you know, maybe we should just explain this concept to the listeners a little bit. Not everybody, I’m sure thinks of it. But the tools that Federal Reserve has, when the economy gets tough, it’s usually because of the money supply is constructed, right? So they can increase the money supply. They can do it through, you know, reserve rates with the banks, they can do it through just pure printing of money or, you know, electronic money creation. They’ve got some tools like this, right. And so, by keeping interest rates and you know, too low, then they don’t have any tools. They don’t have any ammunition if things get bad during a low rate environment, and you know, look at Japan, right, that’s interesting study. So they’ve been trying to raise the rates and take the Punchbowl away so that they have some ammunition ready for the next cycle, which makes us all think maybe they know the cycle is coming, right?

Dan Amerman 16:44
Oh, they do very much and they are talking about it. They’re talking they have their staff presentations at the Federal Open Market Committee. I cover this graphically, of course, as well as the actual numbers and recent analysis from within the last couple weeks that are put out called will the 35th recession bring a swift return to zero percent interest rates. And just to hit it real quickly here, if we go back for the last five recessions, the last five Federal Reserve responses in about the last 40 years or so, in the recession of 1980, the Federal Reserve dropped interest rates by about eight and a half percent in three months. Wow. Now you want to talk about an active intervention. There’s an active intervention. Yeah, the 1981 recession, they dropped rates by 10 and a half percent. The 1990 recession, they dropped rates by a little less than 7% 2001. recession was about five and a half percent. So if you look at the averages of those four episodes, each of which were actually shorter recessions and then our average on a on a long term historical basis. They’re dropping in Interest rates by over 7%. And then the problem they ran into it, and this is all interconnected real estate values, the economy and so forth, is that they were trying to increase interest rates when they saw developing economic problems in 2006. So they got worried and they paused. All right, and the yield curve inverted, by the way, right. This is really interesting. Financial Crisis of 2008. In 2006, we had something very similar today. The Federal Reserve paused and there was a yield curve and version in the year 2000. The Federal Reserve paused, there’s a yield curve in version 2001 recession followed in the year 1989. The Fed paused there’s a yield curve and version the 1990 recession followed. But the problem this time around is because they had to pause before they had the ammunition enough to really knock them down. Knocking interest rates data, zero percent was not enough. It wasn’t nearly enough. That’s why they had to go to all the quantitative easing and balance sheet expansion craziness was because they didn’t have the room. Now, if you look at where you are where we are today, we’re less than half that high. If you look back over the last four years, what it takes to get out of recession, just by slamming interest rates down, which is that’s what monetary policy really is, or at least the most important component, the slam interest rates down. We’re only about a third of where we need to be. So what does that tell us? Well, it tells us two things. First, as almost as certain as the sun coming up in the sky, if we run into another recession, those interest rates in terms of Fed Funds rates are going straight down to zero percent. And then where things get interesting is how they make up for the lack of ammunition. What else they do beyond that, and you certainly have some possibilities. I think the Fed is most interested in balance sheet expansion, which is just a Fed speak way of saying incredible monetary creation on a scale we’ve never seen before. Another possibility would be literal negative interest rates in the United States. Another possibility and this is what the OECD is pushing. I did an analysis on this back in December. And this didn’t get nearly enough attention. The OECD one of the major international organizations, called to the developed nations of the world to work together to develop a plan for coordinated massive deficit spending in the event of another oh my god session.

Jason Hartman 20:30
Wow. So Kevin Collins has taken over the world Hmm, indeed,

Dan Amerman 20:34
that now each one of these things probably individually sounds crazy to the average person even though we’ve seen variants of all three of these all over the place over the last few years. First zero percent interest rates is tough enough, extraordinary new round of monetary creation is hard to believe. literal negative interest rates the United States are hard to believe quickly tacking on another time 10 trillion on the national debt, let’s say on top of everything else is hard to believe. But those are kind of the choices.

Jason Hartman 21:06
Yeah,

Dan Amerman 21:06
well, that’s because they simply don’t have the tools they believe they need. And again, we don’t know what would happen if the Fed were to just disengage, and not do that at all. But the problem is they’ve got the power, and we know they have no intention of disengaging. So whether they’re right or whether they’re wrong, this is what they’re likely to be doing to us. And this is going to set off very rapid investment price changes across numerous different categories. And in my opinion, we have to believe that investment, real estate is very much going to be one of those categories.

Jason Hartman 21:41
So we’ll see asset inflation in investment in real estate, and tell us about general inflation. That’s what that means, right? I mean, it seems obvious enough, but you know, sometimes it’s a little more nuanced than that.

Dan Amerman 21:54
It can be quite a bit more nuanced than that. There’s really two different ways of looking at it. inflation, and there is kind of the general public version. And then there’s the financial mathematics version. In terms of the general public, it’s very easy to leap to this is all craziness. Wily coyote just ran off the side of a cliff. None of this makes any sense. Certainly, we’re going to have immediate hyperinflation or something like that. Yeah, yeah, that could happen. Monetary collapse does happen. And that’s happened a number of different times in history. But there’s other ways of holding things together. And one of the best ways of doing so from the perspective not of you and I, not of the citizen or the investor, but from a governmental perspective, is to have controlled inflation, and use that to essentially wipe out the debts as well as saver assets as well as investment assets, in a manner where most people or most voters don’t truly understand what’s going on. And in that case, what you need is real rate of inflation that is somewhat higher than what is being publicly stated. For instance, we could say that if we go to zero percent interest rates, and the government says, We have 2% rate of inflation, but in fact, if you look at the average prices, that everyone is paying for everything, and I think we’re each and positions, Jason, we talked to a lot of people and we know prices are going up higher than what the government says they aren’t a national basis, then maybe we’ve got a 4% real rate of inflation. And if that means we have negative 4% interest rates, the government can do amazing things with that in terms of maintaining financial stability, but the costs are extraordinarily high. For most people who are doing what they’re supposed to be doing so to speak,

Jason Hartman 23:49
and doing what they’re supposed to be doing is the old version of saving money, and that kind of old fashioned style, which should Makes sense, right? If we lived in a normal world where they weren’t debasing our currency all the time, right? Is that what you mean? Yes, yeah, yeah. Something it’s really mind boggling it is. But it creates span, as you have so aptly pointed out for so many years, tremendous opportunities for those people who, you know, I don’t want to say gaming the system, they just simply do what the powers that be, do you know, they exactly inflate away their own debt.

Dan Amerman 24:29
It’s about understanding what’s going on, and what financially benefits not the average person mo call it the government and the insiders and so forth, and finding ways of accessing that. And as you know, and this is where we first met each other all these years ago. I do believe that using asset liability management principles with income properties is a particularly good method for doing so it’s not the only method but it’s a good method doing some

Jason Hartman 24:59
Yeah, yeah. It’s not the only one but it’s the only one that has the self liquidating debt attached to it that I’m aware of. I mean, you could do with a business right, but a lot more moving parts. You can’t do it with precious metals you can’t do with cryptocurrencies I never got into the cryptocurrency fad. You know, sadly, I think it is a fad. But I’d like to be wrong about that. I’ve stated that many times. But what what else can you do with

Dan Amerman 25:25
there’s different ways of doing it. The nice part about investment real estate cash flow real estate, with a moderate amount of leverage in terms of trying to create a safe asset liability management position is that on the one hand owning Homes is far more active than let’s say passively buying stocks or something like that. But on the other hand, the fundamental wealth transfer mechanism is more or less passive in that case, as you say, with the self liquidating liability where the interest payments are not increasing with inflation, even while the value of the home and the rents that are coming in are more or less increasing with inflation. The other alternatives and this is part of the reason for my work, why my work has gone down some very different paths than it was, say 10 years ago or so, is I’ve been getting a lot of requests from different people who are saying, okay, properties are great, but I’ve got these assets in my retirement account. And I want to be able to know what I can do with those to protect myself from this situation, or maybe even come out somewhat ahead. And there are alternative ways of doing that as well. But we got to raise our game a little bit and have a better understanding of what the Federal Reserve is doing and how that impacts each different investment category. So what I currently use is I have a framework where I have the columns are the changes in the Federal Reserve cycles, the economic cycles and so forth in these amplified times. And the Rose are the investment categories. And row four in this case happens to be real estate. So if you look at real estate in a crisis, that would be sell a four, column A and row four, if you looked at real estate in the containment of crisis that would be sell before, which is, you know, containment crisis and real estate. Yeah, that’s a

Jason Hartman 27:22
really good, Dan, thank you for sharing that. The one thing I do want to say, if some listeners didn’t catch it, the concept of the self liquidating debt is that the tenant pays your debt for you, you outsource your debt obligation to the tenant. And also, as Dan has done so much work on this inflation pays your debt for you. So you don’t have to pay the debts yourself. You get to have that liquidated by other parties, which is which is fantastic. Dan, you know, there’s so much inflation all around us, we see the bag of potato chips has fewer chips in it. Yep, and the price is higher. And there’s all of these different categories where inflation is happening. And, you know, they try to mislead us to make us think it’s not happening. One category that I’ve been talking about a lot lately is the category of how everything today is self service. You know, you go into a restaurant, you’ll wait in line, you order your food, you take a number, and then you come back and get your food. And it’s like a expensive restaurant, you know, not a it’s not a cheap restaurant, like a fast food place. They don’t even serve you anymore, yet, they still expect a tip. And I thought you were supposed to wait on me if I give you a tip. just crazy. And they’re just all these examples everywhere, of where we’re doing everything for ourselves nowadays, all these self service websites that frustrate us endlessly. You know, I just remember the old days, people used to wait on us, right, get back then things were less expensive too. But that’s another way to hide inflation is you just keep getting less. It keeps costing more.

Dan Amerman 28:58
Yes. What’s really interesting as well is I’ve also done a fair amount of work in terms of looking at things like Social Security and Medicare, and kind of taking a look at how these programs are actually working in practice in terms of the cash flow coming through on an inflation adjusted basis and where the holes are in the inflation indexing and so forth. It’s interesting because this is brought me in contact with many, many people who are out there living on Social Security, they’re living on Medicare, so they’re their payments are self security, less Medicare plus private investment income, of course. But when you have someone who’s on a fixed income, this being inflation adjusted at the rate the government says the actual rate of inflation is there’s really no fooling them. Right. And something I hear all across the board, virtually every retiree you talk to, I think we went through a three year period there, where the average person on Social Security who was having Medicare Part B deductible was not getting any increase at all. Virtually no increase whatsoever. And did they not have expenses going up? Yeah, right now, which doesn’t matter who you talked to doesn’t matter where they live, they’re all seeing their expenses go up every year, even as the amount they have available to live on is not going up.

Jason Hartman 30:18
Yeah, we are having to fight for ourselves much more nowadays than I remember. I mean, look, I’ve been in business a long time. And I remember that we just didn’t have to, like fight our way to get things before you know, people. I mean, this is a cultural comment, too. But the system I don’t even want to say people were more decent. I think they were back then. But the system was more decent. Now the system is it’s just brutal. And I’m talking about any system to get service to get answers to get. It’s kind of mind boggling, like how people don’t realize this is a symptom of inflation. It’s inflationary. This is part of inflation. We’re seeing it we live with it every day. All these self service everything I mean, look at how many different websites you have to engage with and services you have to use and subscriptions you have. I mean, we totally live in a subscription economy. And I’ve seen the prices of all those subscriptions increasing dramatically software subscriptions, who says there’s no inflation. It’s crazy how much more expensive that stuff has become.

Dan Amerman 31:21
And headline, front page headline, The Wall Street Journal this morning, expect the prices of all our basic products be going up? Yeah, well,

Jason Hartman 31:28
gotta invest for that. And, Dan, thank you for all your work in this area, because it’s been really phenomenal. give out your website and tell people where they can find your work and are you doing live events lately or what’s going on? Yes, I

Dan Amerman 31:42
am. The website is Daniel Ammerman. Am er ma n.com. Yes, the next live event is in the Chicago suburbs the last weekend in April. Fantastic. Well, Dan Ammerman.

Jason Hartman 31:59
Thank you So much for joining us.

Dan Amerman 32:01
Thank you for having me, Jason.

Jason Hartman 32:04
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