Holistic Survival
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Commercial Real Estate Collapse and other effects of COVID-19

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Jason Hartman looks at the housing changes as a result of COVID-19. He discusses the pandemic’s impact on commercial real estate and how investors in his network are positioned well to thrive in these challenging times. He gives his prediction on the migration out of high-density cities into suburbia.

Jason Hartman 0:00
communication has been just fantastic. And even after leasing a property Platinum properties have kept in contact to check everything’s okay.

Introduction Speaker 0:10
Welcome to the creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You’re about to learn a new slant on investing some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world’s most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine self made multi millionaire who’s actually been there and done it. He’s a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who’s owned properties in 11 states had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to your financial independence day. You really can do it on now. here’s your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Jason Hartman 1:02
Welcome to Episode 1435 1435. So we’ve talked about the shadow demand for housing, the tidal wave, the tsunami, the epic migration, The Grapes of Wrath. I don’t know, give me more migration metaphors.

Jason Hartman 1:25
It’s coming, folks, and it is going to benefit you. But, and of course, what I’m referring to if you’re just tuning in for the first time, welcome, welcome. Is the migration out of high density areas and into low density living the rise of the suburbs, suburbia is back and it’s coming back with a vengeance and you’re gonna profit from it, because that’s the type of investing we’ve been telling you to do for 16 years now. Okay, so the elements of that migration trend Couples roommates, urban dwellers, remote work remote working out multi generational living. I haven’t talked about that one yet. Yes, I’ve postulated a new thesis on that as well. And I think that’s going to have a huge impact on the assisted living world and that business, and we’re going to talk about that a lot more. Hopefully, we’re going to be getting this pandemic investing webinar off the ground next week. Again, keep updating it keep changing. There’s just so much to assimilate here. And we want to make it really good for you. But in the meantime, if you want to know kind of some of the early thoughts on this, go to pandemic investing, calm and get your free video, free ebook, and free audio download, at pandemic investing calm, there’s nothing there to buy just free stuff. Just go to pandemic investing calm And we have got a guest today where we’re going to talk about some of these changes in the economy in the marketplace, obviously hugely significant stuff going on. The important thing though, we’ve got to remember we’ve got to remember this folks. Too many of us too many of us, including myself, are living day to day, or even worse hour to hour. As if this is some kind of a sporting event. What’s going on? You know, we’re news junkies, right? Some Some of us are, and we can’t live our our we can’t live day to day. We can’t live week to week. We gotta at least live month to month. Okay, we are in the thick of it right now, folks, I told you two weeks ago, maybe three weeks ago, that this was gonna be the tough month, April. Yes. Remember that mantra make it to may well, might be longer. In May, but whatever it is, it will pass. And we will get through this. And we got good stuff ahead. There’s a lot of good stuff. I had just got to position yourself right for the opportunities to flow your way. And there’s talk is it going to be a V shaped recovery? That’s what everybody’s hoping for I say it will not be a V shaped recovery. Then there are some who say it will be an L l like love an L shaped recovery, I say it will not. There are some say who say it will be a U shaped recovery. I say it will not. I say it will be a whole nother shape. Yes, a different shape. And I’ll be sharing that during the updated pandemic investing webinar that hopefully we’re going to have next week. And I must tell you, I’m kind of cheating right now, because I’m actually on the funding webinar multitasking here. Yes, I had to get this intro recorded for you because our producer was bugging me saying Jason reminder get that intro to me. We’ve got to get this show posted today today. So we’re doing that. Okay. A lot of stuff going on. Obviously I sort of don’t know where to start, but if you need us reach out Jason Hartman calm or one 800 Hartman happy to help with your questions or investment therapy. If you need some investment therapy, we’re here for you. I’m going to officially label us certified investment therapists now. I just made that up. Don’t hold me to it. Just made that one up. I doubt there really is such a certification. But maybe there should be and I think I will create it. Okay. Don’t steal my ideas. You sleazy competitors out there? That’s my idea. Investment therapy. Yes, one of our clients even sent Sarah one of our investment counselors years ago sent her a shirt that says Investment therapists. I love that that was really funny. So anyway, hey, we are going to have another funding webinar tonight, eight o’clock eastern, as you know, and a whole bunch of you took advantage of this. I think that’s really good idea. It’s going to give you some breathing room. And it’s also going to help you really be better at managing your credit, your credit score. Very important thing. So yeah, I think there’s a lot of good stuff there. So congrats to the ones who signed up. Let me know how it all goes. I want to keep an eye on these affiliates. And if you’re looking for the work from home opportunity, go to bit dot L y, slash tax profit. That’s the tax sale opportunity. Bitly slash tax profit bit.li slash tax profit. And tomorrow, I think we’re going to have my friend Julia back on the show and we’re going to talk about tax sales. And how that is an opportunity for real estate investors with the economy changing and the market changing there. We’ll be new problems and new opportunities. Remember, the Chinese yin and yang crisis is the same as opportunity. It’s just the flip side of the coin basically. Alright, without further ado, let’s get to part two of the show and talk to our guests. A returning guests back on the show today. Here he is.

Jason Hartman 7:22
It’s my pleasure to welcome a returning guest back to the show. He’s been on many times, Carrie Lutz runs the financial survival network and he is an investment counselor. Carrie, welcome back. How you doing?

Carrie 7:34
Everything is good. I’m just really social distancing myself. I’m saving a fortune. I’m not making anything but I’m saving so much.

Jason Hartman 7:45
Because you’re not going out and spending money, right?

Carrie 7:48
Yeah, I used to buy lunch three, four times a week. I’d go out to dinner three or four times and I’d still like to do it but the government has told me that I cannot so I just have to sit home and join the economic downturn.

Jason Hartman 8:04
Yeah. You know, the economist, which I’m sure is a magazine you read, to some extent, at least, the the cover of The Economist magazine was so fitting, it had a picture of the earth seen from outer space with a closed sign hanging on it. And it’s absolutely crazy to me, I still got to mention it that just a week and a half. Maybe it was two weeks ago. minuchin said that we may or may not enter a recession. Are you kidding me of you can’t close the global economy down and expect not to be in a recession that that’s just absolutely nuts, to say something like that. But you’re interviewing people all the time on your show, Carrie, you know, just what do you make of things? I’ll ask you just a very general question. Take it wherever you like.

Carrie 8:51
Yeah, well, you can’t shut down the global economy even for 90 days and then not expect to have a major recession if not a global event. Depression, China is opening up now, supposedly, but who are they going to sell their stuff to when all of their markets are closed. So they’ve been out for three months. Now, they have to wait for the rest of the planet to catch up. So they’re out for six months. This is the stuff that revolutions are made of, because they had kind of a devil’s pact with their people will keep the economy growing, we’ll keep you fed, and clothed and housed, and you just let us do whatever we want. And let us do our totalitarian thing. And now that compact that deal with the devil is over. And where do we go from here? And when you say that you’re talking about the Chinese people in the Chinese government, their perspective and, and yes,

Jason Hartman 9:47
China has always been extremely sensitive to civil unrest. Because, you know, the promise of communism and socialism is that the people will get their free stuff and Of course, it’s not free, you got to work but centrally plan governments and economies. That’s kind of the deal they make, right? But the people have to behave themselves. And this is the stuff revolutions are made of. So China is coming back online, to some extent now. Seems though their infections have peaked. And they’re going to get back to work here before we do, because the disaster came later to the US into Europe.

Carrie 10:25
So they’re coming back on but they got nobody to sell anything to orders are being cancelled left and right. I mean, the amazing thing is, Will Amazon’s supposedly hiring 100,000 more people to sell more Chinese stuff? I just don’t know how this is all going to work out. But obviously, it’s going to really spur nationalism. When you see the EU, the countries that comprise the EU putting border controls back on to keep infected people out.

Jason Hartman 10:56
Now, wait a sec. I gotta just I gotta just comment on that. Imagine that people, countries have the right to have borders. Wow. haven’t we been talking about that the last three years everybody’s hating on Trump, you know? Oh, gosh, you know, absolutely ridiculous. Of course, countries have the right to protect their borders. And yes, I do think the world is going to become more isolationist.

Carrie 11:25
Yeah, for better or worse, no doubt. And you look at the, you know, I know it’s been beat to death. But the whole thing with antibiotics in the US production has been outsourced to China. That’s obviously going to change. But, you know, we’re in a situation here where the world’s central banks and governments are going to be giving out hurricane a helicopter money and literally dumping money on the people from helicopters. And this is not a good sign. I mean, it could conceivably be the death knell of the The global economic system here.

Jason Hartman 12:01
Now what you mean by that is you mean, inflation possibly hyperinflation, right? If it was a dumping, just you know, you can’t create money out of thin air and expect not to ultimately have inflationary pressures.

Carrie 12:16
Yeah, you can create money out of thin air, but you can’t create wealth out of thin air. And that’s what’s what they fail to get. Because just because the quantity of money goes up, the goods and services that represent the purchasing power of that money are not going up. They’re going down. Now I’m not saying that there’s going to be inflation because it could very well turn deflationary. I mean, we look at the stock markets of the world last $25 trillion in value.

Jason Hartman 12:49
So that’s asset deflation. Yes.

Carrie 12:51
And that will translate into lower purchases, cutting back on spending and you know, people You just have to look at the travel system here or the travel network, if you will, has been totally decimated in six weeks time, and it happened so quickly. This is such a sharp, V shaped recession. You know, it looks like they’re not going to bail out the cruise ship industry or the cruise industry which, by the way,

Jason Hartman 13:22
I agree with I mean, I don’t really agree with any bailouts as a, you know, generally philosophically although, you know, practice and philosophy can differ and I’ll be the first to admit that just from my own perspective, but you know, these cruise ships have been evading American taxes yet the US is their biggest market for customers. And you know, they set up offshore and they hire offshore workers and that you know, they they skirt the tax system in the US and then expect to bail out Give me a break. They don’t deserve it. You know, if you if you want to bail out from the US government, then pay into the US government. Okay, if you want welfare from the US government pay into the US government, and otherwise go get your bailout from the country where your ship is registered or where your where your company’s registered, you know, maybe, you know, some of these companies that use the Ireland or the Dutch or the Philippine, you know, or that whatever tax haven they’re using, right? They can get them to bail them out, you know, see if they see those countries give them

Carrie 14:24
a lot like the Netherlands or in Panama. I’m sure Panama is really gonna bail out Carnival Cruise Line. Yeah, you know, look, I go to Boeing, and to me, and all of these industries, the airlines between the airlines and Boeing, they bought back since 2012. And this is according to wolf Richter, Wolf, Wolf of Wall Street, I think is his site. They collectively bought back $90 billion of their shares, and Boeing needs 60 billion now Boeing had bought back $45 billion worth of their shares. You know, they’re in the situation they’re in because of bad management. So I had published the taxpayers bailout Bill of Rights. My feeling is just like in 2008 Well, they’re letting Boeing’s management stay there the very people who got them there now granted the head Whelan Berg he left, but he left with an $80 million golden parachute. So see these are these companies are scamming the taxpayers left and right. They abuse the system. You know, American Airlines is a great example right they made a fortune during the good times. They didn’t bother to save any money to speak of, they bought their own stock back enriching themselves and creating a fake value for their stock and got other you know, middle class investors to buy in after the fat cats. And you know, now they go to the government say we need a bailout. Well, where’s your savings account? Where’s your contingency plan? That’s ridiculous. Hey, so an on that topic. All the while, so Boeing decided to buy back their stock rather than to invest in a successor to the 737, which was a 1960s vintage airframe, which they’ve maxed out.

Jason Hartman 16:14
They’ve done a great job, they really have they’ve, they’ve knocked that plane for a long time.

Carrie 16:20
It hit its limits with the 737 max. Now 10 years ago, they had the option of replacing that with a composite frame much like the 787 and they

Jason Hartman 16:33
didn’t want to do the RMD. They just wanted to take the simple approach and do a 737 Max

Carrie 16:38
and then buy back their shares. So what we should be specific when you buy back your company’s shares, look at it this way. If you’re making $200 and it comes out you have 100 shares, then it’s $1 a share but if you only have 50 shares because you bought back the half of them, then you’re making $2 a share your bonuses get triggered, because they’re basing it on earnings per share, rather than the actual profitability of the company and free cash flow, which is the lifeblood of business. And these people walk away the year before Muhlenberg in, I think, 2018 he walked away with 30 million. And this is a guy that destroyed the company. So him and his cohorts on the board, and management, all did this. They should all be expelled from the company for life. I had a few other things in there, like no moratorium on lobbying, any government at any level if you take our money, and other things like bonuses don’t get paid disgorgement of prior bonuses that what you’re talking about is the taxpayer Bill of Rights. If the company accepts a bailout, exempt should be the rules under and you didn’t really set that up to the listener, I don’t think right?

Jason Hartman 17:57
Yes, I wanted to give them the context of what you’re talking about. Notice stock buybacks. That’s what I say. That’s what I’m saying.

Carrie 18:03
Yeah. And because from 2012 to now, there were $4.5 trillion worth of stock buybacks that inflated the stock market, and helped put us into the mess that we are in now. And it should, there’s no economic justification for buying back your own stock, except in the limited situation where your stock is selling for below book value. And then it becomes a good investment to a point. And there’s been this orgy of buybacks going on. And really, you know, the Bible says, In times of peace, you prepare for war, in times of war, you prepare for peace. And you know, in times of plenty, you prepare for famine, and in times of famine, you prepare for plenty. They just ignored this basic admonition of the Bible and it’s not religious. It’s just common sense. It’s common sense and they’re in the hole. Now they’re in a hole. And we got to bail them out. And we, you know, it’s not like we’re actually going to pay more in taxes, we’re just going to have create more currency units to do the job and hope that we don’t have major inflation.

Jason Hartman 19:13
Yeah. Which which, of course, we ultimately will takes a while to work its way through the system. But, yeah, it’s really something. Okay. So what’s interesting, too, is that the Federal Reserve is now a bond buyer. And it looks like they’re probably going to be a stock buyer soon if they get congressional approval, and the Fed is literally going to go into the market and in addition to buying bonds, which is already kind of crazy. They’re gonna buy stock climbing corporate bonds, I’m talking about they’re buying, okay, so they’re gonna buy stock in companies to prop up the stock market.

Carrie 19:48
Yep, exactly. And that, you know, Trump before he was president said, the stock market’s a bubble. After he’s president. He’s taking credit for the rising stock market and everyone’s portfolios going down. Higher now that it’s gone down. It’s COVID-19 fault. It’s not his, but you can’t stake you live by the stock market, you die by the stock market. And you can’t blame. You know, if it wasn’t COVID-19 it would have been COVID 20. Or it would have been, you know, the Spanish Flu 2.0. Right, right. Or, or it would have been a war or something else. This balloon had to be pricked. Yes, thing, and it was just COVID-19. In this case, let’s talk about that for a minute. So

Jason Hartman 20:32
just do a thought experiment with us for a moment listeners. Let’s just assume that the COVID-19 thing, and I’m not saying this, I’m just saying this is a thought experiment. So relax people. I know some people are believers and they’re really worried about it. And you know, I kind of fall into that camp a little bit. Some people think it’s a massive overreaction. It’s a fake. It’s a conspiracy. It’s not really that big a deal. It’s like the flu. Okay, so you got these two sides. diametrically opposite ends of the spectrum, right? But let’s just go with the people who think it’s no big deal for a moment. Okay? Now, if this thing comes along, and, you know, let’s assume it’s not really that big a deal, okay, but the government or governments of the world knowing that they’ve been totally irresponsible all these years, they’ve spent too much money, they’ve inflated these giant bubbles. We’re in the everything bubble. And instead of having another great financial crisis, like we did last time around, which, you know, all the corporations and the government’s got the blame for that, rightfully so. But of course, they nobody got any jail time. Sadly, now they get to blame it on Coronavirus. So it’s a very convenient excuse and they just shut down the economy for a short time and say, Oh, well, you know, this is the reason we need more control of your life. We need we need to pump in money into the system we need to paper over our sins from the past 12 years or really the last five decades to an extent to you know that that is a this is a convenient time for this to happen because everybody was talking about the bubble popping anyway. Right before this.

Carrie 22:20
Yeah. And the thing is, it’s very hard for people to know and appreciate that they’re in a bubble when when they’re after it pops and say, Oh, that was a bubble. But for the people who got it before they cleaned up, and you didn’t need to be Nicolas to lead to to clean up on this. That’s the black swan. Right. Yeah. Black Swan book. Yeah. Yeah, you know, you could do it in other ways, just by various things by living beneath your means by investing in assets that are kind of mandatory. Like, like single family homes, that type of thing. And in gold, which was the best performing asset for the past year and a half after what the debacle that took place in the stock market.

Jason Hartman 23:10
Carrie, what do you make of all these sudden CEO resignations? And like right at the time that the financial markets finally sort of recognized Coronavirus as a real threat. All of these CEOs just resigned their posts, they just you know, the Disney CEO and a whole bunch of others. They just left. I mean that that was shocking. Not that many people are really talking about this. Well, did they see something we didn’t know what

Carrie 23:43
a lot of it was the me to thing supposedly, there’s probably guys seeing it coming and want to get out at the top. It always makes sense to get out at the top and get out at the bottom. You know, like jack welch. He got out right at the top of GE Capital. Three years later the company’s in the dumps. Yeah,

Jason Hartman 24:03
well, and even even the Federal Reserve level to not just not just the big corporations, but Alan Greenspan resigned it just the right time.

Carrie 24:14
Yeah, yeah.

Jason Hartman 24:17
Yeah, they do. But the question is more of, they obviously knew we were at the top, they knew they must have known something. That’s what people are saying they must have known something that general public didn’t know. Obviously, if you’re the CEO of a big giant corporation, you have information that, you know, the holy boy doesn’t have right. First, yeah. Any any thoughts on that?

Carrie 24:40
Well, I don’t know what they knew that eventually, every boom and with a bust, and every bust ends with a boom. It’s just the way the financial markets and you get to a point in your 60s, you start like thinking about other things. about, hey, I’ve got a limited time left on the planet. There’s other things I want to do. I’ve got to the top of the heap in corporate America. And now, you know, hey, like the old cliche, I want to go spend more time with my family. Well, you’re getting to spend a lot of time with your family now that everybody’s in isolation here. Right, right. Right.

Jason Hartman 25:22
You know, I’ve wondered if nine months from now, there will be either a mini baby boom, or a a bunch of divorces? I don’t know which, or both,

Carrie 25:33
or both? Yeah. A lot of adoptions?

Jason Hartman 25:37
Who knows who knows what will happen? Well, you said that the end of every bubble ends with a boom. And I think that’s true. You know, I like this idea that expansions create millionaires, but recessions create billionaires. And if you look back through every I mean, we don’t have to look back to the Great Depression. Okay. We can just look back 10 to 12 years ago to the Great Recession, and look at all of the wealth that was created coming out of that. But when when we were in it at the time, and I remember a while because, you know, it wasn’t that long ago 10 to 12 years ago, it felt like the world was ending, it felt like everything was over. I mean, asset prices were just collapsing. It was absolutely monumental. And it was much more slow than this has been this has been very sudden, this this one, obviously. But look at all of the the new ideas, the new businesses, the new successes that were created out of that I wish I had a list of examples. I know they’re there, because I remember thinking about a lot of them over the past 10 to 12 years. A lot of opportunities come out of these times, right?

Carrie 26:48
Oh, absolutely. You know that old cliche more millionaires were created in the Great Depression than any other time in history. You know, these trends of various sections. All central industries coming back to the United States, the end of globalism will definitely create opportunities that we hadn’t seen before. And the other thing is, you know, I always refer to the US dollar as the Taj Mahal of Baltimore.

Jason Hartman 27:17
Meaning that the dollar isn’t that great. It’s just better than everything else. Right? Is that what you’re saying? When you say that? It’s the Taj Mahal of Baltimore?

Carrie 27:26
Best house in the worst neighborhood, right? Yeah. And it Whoa. So the fact is, though, that that the rising dollar, or the stable dollar before it might all come collapse, but let’s assume that it isn’t going to because you can’t do anything if it is anyway. So let’s just assume the dollar will carry on in some way or form and more money is going to pour into the United States as a result of this recession is very predictable, new and I’ve been predicting it for The past eight, nine years that we’ve been talking, we knew it was coming. And we knew it was going to be bad. And I said for the past decade that the next crash will be far worse than Oh, wait, no 908 no, nine was really bad. But this is far worse. Oh, yeah. And but out of the ashes comes a new world. And what you need to do is figure out the trends and get ahead of the trend, like this whole working from home thing.

Jason Hartman 28:28
What’s that going to do? The commercial real estate market? It’s just gonna collapse in so many ways. I mean, Carrie, I think this is and people may disagree with me about this. But I think this is a generational mentality change. I don’t think I don’t think we will ever go back. I mean, and when I say ever obviously memories fade eventually, right? But for a generation, or at least the better part of 10 years to hold the hotel business being great the travel business. seeing great concerts, big weddings, even funerals, you know, like everybody has become a germaphobe and you know, we probably should have been better germaphobes before I’ve been on the leading edge of that I’m a little bit of a germaphobe but not not like this Now I’m really

Carrie 29:21
really ahead cuz he even shake people’s hands when I met him. Yeah, held off shaking his hand because I knew he was a germaphobe and it went into the bathroom of by his office and there was a huge sign on the mirror. All employees must us wash, scour and disinfect their hands. Before coming back to the office.

Jason Hartman 29:41
I remember reading that about from years ago before. Before half the country hated him.

Carrie 29:48
Leaving we shook hands and he insisted on shaking hands, but I didn’t push that on him because I knew that that was his thing. Well, for one thing, what

Jason Hartman 29:59
what year did you meet By the way,

Carrie 30:00
2000 Yeah, right before 911 and, you know, now you, you, you think like, just think all these people hand sanitizer. I’ve got Lysol wipes in my car, I wipe my car down. You shouldn’t

Jason Hartman 30:15
you shouldn’t tell people that they might break into your car.

Carrie 30:19
Yeah, I’m leaving them showing. I got to tell you a funny story. So, so you know, I’m single. And I do date, but datings kind of been on hold because there’s no place to go. And this one woman who I’ve been friendly with for a while. We had a date yesterday, we went to Sam’s Club. And the highlight of the date was okay, yeah, there was well, we bought discount gasoline first. Really cheap because gas is going down the drain. No pun intended oil. Meaning Yeah, oil. Yes. Oh, prices are so cheap.

Jason Hartman 30:51
It’s just in half the price. You need to have the oil industry come back. Yeah, yeah.

Carrie 30:59
And then We went in there, and there was toilet paper 45 rolls for 20 bucks. And there was paper towels. So this was like a bonanza date, it was a whole different way of relating of courting, if you will, interacting on a date, that’s, you know, it was actually a lot of fun. I didn’t have to drop hundreds of dollars. We didn’t have any wine. We didn’t, you know, maybe we picked up a hot dog there. But that was it. It was like a whole different way. And I think that the way society relates to each other look, Jason in our area here, I get this thing called spot crime calm. And normally there’d be five or six incidents per day, you know, mostly minor thefts from people’s yards and stuff like bicycles, no major crime, but now, everyone’s home. there’s virtually no crime neighborhood any longer.

Jason Hartman 31:56
I was I was thinking about that. I was thinking this would be a terrible error. in which to be a burglar because everybody’s home? Well, you can you can obviously rob a commercial building because nobody’s there. So I guess you could go in and, you know, if you wanted to break into an office and steal something probably be fine.

Carrie 32:16
Little more generally, well, retail established, it’s a little more fortified, but the opportunity exists. But because nobody’s on the street, right? You see the traffic, the traffic turn, it’s disappeared. Yeah, Hey, man, we don’t need more highways, we just need a worse economy. And we got all the highways we need. And so anybody that’s on the highway stands out like a sore thumb. And, and then I think, also we have collective shock that has set upon the country in the world. And when you’re kind of in shock, you don’t really do much. And if that if your productivity is being a burglar, or a criminal, your productivity has gone way down lately. So all those things form Just look in our neighborhood here people walking around. Yeah. Walking around and not like now.

Carrie 33:06
Yeah. And you stop and talk to your neighbor. I know. It’s

Jason Hartman 33:10
very different. It’s different.

Carrie 33:11
Yeah. That’s a great thing to know. So disengaged and disconnected from the people living 2030 feet away from us. And that’s been a real negative of technology and of,

Jason Hartman 33:26
of the suburban sprawl and other other factors. And I get asked the question about that suburban sprawl. Okay. Look at you are from New York. Now, you lived in Westchester County, but I believe there was a time when you also lived in Manhattan, right? That’s okay. So the big trend that I’ve been predicting is that after this blows over, and it will, there is going to be a major mindset shift, and people are going to start moving to less densely populated areas that are safer, the suburban, I think, we’re going to see The rise of suburbia, I really think somebody is coming back. I don’t think rural areas, I mean, some will obviously but but suburban is a good choice. You can socially distance, you know, people are going to be worried about the next Fender because another one will come after this, you know, it’s just the way of things.

Carrie 34:18
Yeah, well, the places that had been hit worst by the pandemic, and that’s not just this one all are the most densely populated places, which also happen to be like New York and the major metropolitan areas in LA and San Francisco. And guess what’s coming next the new hotspot is New Orleans. Oh, well, you know, that place. It’s been in more ways than one for 100 years. But you know, you look at it all of these cities, states, etc. that are hit the worst, especially New York, or people with the states with the highest population density. Massachusetts, New Jersey, New Jersey is the most densely populated state the country and, and has the most densely populated city in the country which I believe I think I remember it being Hoboken but I could be wrong was densely populated city in the country. And then you look in China, where it’s spread like wildfire. It’s super dense. Yes.

Jason Hartman 35:19
Yeah. And Italy is very dense. I mean, European cities are very dense suburbia. The idea of suburban living is a uniquely American idea. And the reason that is true is because post World War Two, the baby boomers got busy, and there was this huge development boom, and they just the Sprawl began in post the post World War Two life, and that’s what created suburbia, and then there was of course, the famous Levittown which is like the suburban model, right. And America had the automobile and they you know, we have this romance with the car in this country. And that’s why we have suburbia. You’re European countries, you know, China, no other country really has a suburban concept in the way America does. And that’s a great opportunity for real estate investors. Oh,

Carrie 36:11
yeah, totally, especially with the price of energy coming down. Yeah. And understand the energy prices have been coming down in inflation adjusted terms for a long time. Just a continuation of the trend. And, look, I don’t know about you, but driving much less. So finding things in your neighborhood, to entertain you and to connect with people is really a great thing. It’s like a hidden gem that we’ve all forgotten about. And you know, the idea like when you used to move to a new neighborhood, and the neighbor had the welcoming committee, credit check on you, but then but it was a great thing. They brought you a cake and you felt like you were Part of something. We’ve gotten away from that. And that’s also the family. So this might be a real build up for the family as well, because we’re not out there trying to acquire everything. So the age of acquisitiveness, acquisition, maybe is, is going to diminish substantially. Consumers maybe go back to where we were in the 50s, which wasn’t so bad.

Jason Hartman 37:24
Yeah, right now, hey, listen, I agree. I think there’s a lot of good stuff that’ll come out of this. The message for listeners though, is you’ve got to look at things are moving around. Whenever this happens, wealth moves around, things move around. certain industries die, other industries are born, you know, certain investments really suffer and certain investments thrive. So that’s what we’re here to help you with. Carrie, give out your website.

Carrie 37:52
Oh, sure. It’s, and just let me make one comment before we wrap up. Its financial stuff. Survival network.com I started it in 2011 I was getting ready to rebrand because I’m saying, you know, I’m just not relevant anymore. Now we got a great name buddy has jobs. And literally, I was few, maybe a month away from a total rebrand. And here we are Jason. Yeah. So what? I’m keeping the name

Jason Hartman 38:22
Yeah, I think the name is good. You know, for years during the Great Recession. My number two podcast of all the different shows that I run was the holistic survival show. And the tagline is protecting the people places and profits you care about in uncertain times. And for the past 10 years times have been pretty certain everybody Yeah, yeah, party and spending and everything you know, looks good and rosy. But now that show has come back into popularity. So the whole survival show is is now gaining ground and I think your name is perfect

Carrie 38:56
for ventually narrow ties come back in style. Eventually, the wide ties come back into style. You and I are back in style here. It’s not that we were ever out. But you know, it’s a huge drag to rebrand your show and your website and everything, and I really didn’t want to do it. But But, you know, my, my last parting message is Don’t let this thing get you down. It’s like a depression isn’t just an economic depression. It is a mental state, shared by the majority of the participants in society. And you can decide whether or not you’re going to participate. There’s a lot of good things, a lot of hopeful things. My son’s been living with me for the past two and a half weeks, it’s been great. We kind of reconnected and he’s, he’s out there in the world making his way. But, you know, it’s been a great experience and I’m grateful for it.

Jason Hartman 39:54
You know, there are lots of good things that come out of this. So thanks for sharing all this carry and be well and Talk to you soon.

Carrie 40:01
All right. Thanks, Jason. Always great to come on the show. Happy investing.

Jason Hartman 40:08
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