Holistic Survival
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Coronavirus – Black Swan Theory and Coronavirus

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Jason Hartman hosts this show from Shenzhen where he interviews China local Gary Halmbacher to discuss Black Swan Event Coronavirus. Gary gives us insight into self-quarantining and local changes in Shenzhen and Hong Kong. In the last segment of the show, Jason hosts Florida realtor, Jeff Twigg. They discuss Dan Amerman’s workshop, some of his predictions, and the Asset Liability Management Strategy.

Announcer 0:01
This show is produced by the Hartman media company. For more information and links to all our great podcasts, visit Hartman media.com.

Announcer 0:11
Welcome to the holistic survival show with Jason Hartman. The economic storm brewing around the world is set to spill into all aspects of our lives. Are you prepared? Where are you going to turn for the critical life skills necessary to survive and prosper? The holistic survival show is your family’s insurance for a better life. Jason will teach you to think independently to understand threats and how to create the ultimate action plan. sudden change or worst case scenario. You’ll be ready. Welcome to holistic survival, your key resource for protecting the people, places and profits you care about in uncertain times. Ladies and gentlemen, your host Jason Hartman.

Jason Hartman 0:59
This is a Black Swan event. And the same Nicholas Taleb is a fantastic author. I’ve talked to you about his books over the years. And of course, he wrote a book entitled The Black Swan and has publicized and promulgated this idea that the financial markets or any part of life really occasionally see something that is totally unexpected and has severe impact. And I think we are going through something that is would absolutely qualify as a black swan event. Of course, I’m talking about COVID-19 the Coronavirus and if you look at the markets, they are just plummeting. The s&p was halted after plunging 7% right after opening today. absolutely crazy stuff going on. My good friend Gary humbucker lives in Shenzhen, China, and he has lived there for many years. We met maybe 15 years ago in Newport Beach, California, at the coffee shop and we used to have these tremendous multi tie our long coffee shop meetings, Gary and Patrick and Rob and a few other friends. Since Gary lives in China, I wanted to give you a report. He’s been on the show before and he and he’s very attuned to the news and the economy. He’s very interested in economics and investing and so forth. And I wanted to just invite him on just to give a report as to what is going on in China. Gary, thank you so much for joining us. What is happening over there.

Gary 2:29
Alright, Jason, good morning to you good night to me. As you said I live in Shenzhen, China, which is the far southern tip of China I border Hong Kong, and I started watching this virus it kind of caught my attention about mid January. And and just really quickly, I know we have a short intro, everybody is thinking about Spring Festival which is Chinese New Year’s. So imagine Christmas, New Year’s and Fourth of July all rolled into one and that’s great. Spring Festival, and my workers actually picked up on it before me. And of course, it took off. And all of February was a nail biter. I, my wife and I have been self quarantine since January 25. So that’s coming up on six weeks. Only in the last few days. Have we actually gone outside for something more than just the basic essentials?

Jason Hartman 3:29
So Gary, you’re going outside for the basics, you know, food shopping, whatever. But what’s happening there when you go on the mass transit? Are there people using the system are there people in the shopping malls give us an idea as to the traffic I’ve seen videos of just empty streets and empty sidewalks where you know I was in China last year as you know, and it was packed everywhere you look just just packed with people. Give us an idea as to what’s going on like that in terms of foot traffic.

Gary 3:57
I can tell you those videos are accurate. I have a number have still photos. And generally the day or two after spring festival, nobody is out anyways. But that that total abandonment of both people, you know pedestrian and auto traffic was real. I have some pictures where there might be one or two pictures in the frame of view. And we would be the only people out. Everybody has masks on. My wife and I typically wear safety glasses because the virus can enter through the eyes and everything was closed, but food markets. I would like to emphasize I don’t know what was going on and move on. I’ve got one friend who I’ve kind of been trying to get ahold of. He’s actually in Virginia right now at university, but he lived in Taiwan, but I can tell you in our immediate area here food was plentiful food was never a problem the markets in fact were overflowing. My guess is the reason why is a lot of local restaurants would have bought their food from the market. And they were all closed. So we never had a problem with food.

Jason Hartman 5:07
So in terms of supply chains, the whole world is so interconnected in terms of supply chains and so forth. Obviously, China, the workshop of the world, we could talk about the economy for three, you know, eight hours easily, but just a couple of sound bites on your thought. In terms of the economy, the financial markets are just collapsing. The Fed made an emergency rate cut last week, and money is free real estate investors are foaming at the mouth, and I agree with them. But there’s a lot more to this than that.

Gary 5:40
Again, for us here. I’m fairly financially well off. You got me started on real estate. That’s probably another show we could do. I’m sitting in very large cash positions. My office has been closed since January 22, or 23rd, which would be normal, however, was supposed to open up February one.

Jason Hartman 6:02
No, that was because of the Chinese holiday. Right?

Gary 6:04
Correct. Okay, the office would have been closed about two weeks anyway, China would not have gotten rolling again until about the middle of February because, as you probably heard, everybody travels during that time, and it has to be staggered out. There’s just too many people with too much money. And imagine trying to move significant portions of 1.4 billion people in two weeks. So there’s about a three to four week period where things slow down almost to a stop and do not normally get back to normal until this year, Chinese New Year being early, they would have gotten moving about mid February. So we’ve really had about three weeks of abnormally low activity.

Jason Hartman 6:51
Okay, so Gary, we want to have you back to talk about the economy, broader economy. There’s a lot to this. There’s a lot of supply chain issues today. discus and a lot of unknowns we really don’t know. But just sum it all up anything else you want to say about anything about real estate, the economy? Just what’s going on in China in general? And we’ll have you back.

Gary 7:12
Yeah, here is as bad as it gotten. Remember, shinzen is away from Moo ha, Wu Han, was the center, the whole rest of the country was more or less unaffected. But through the whole process, all of my workers and myself we were all self isolating self quarantining about a week before the government had said, Nobody needed to tell us anything. We were already self quarantining. We’re already wearing masks. We have our indoor clothes, our outdoor clothes. After we go outside, we come in and leave our indoor clothes in the vestibule area. We take a shower you mean your outdoor

Jason Hartman 7:49
clothes? Yeah. When you put on your

Gary 7:52
clothes by the door. We come in, we take a shower. Any packages we bring in gets sprayed down with alcohol, alcohol was in short supply just temporarily. China makes everything they make 97% of American antibiotics, which is another show, but the lights never went off the water never stopped working. The toilet never stopped flushing. The Internet never dropped. Our mobile phones always work. And there was loads of food and all the markets. So the supply chain that

Jason Hartman 8:26
just isn’t good is in good shape. Fair, huh?

Gary 8:29
No, the The only thing I haven’t been able to find is we seem to have a shortage of American bacon. And um, you know, they’ve had no but you know, there have been no other than us staying in. There have been no shortage of anything in shenzen where we live.

Jason Hartman 8:47
Yeah. Good stuff. Good to know. Well, Gary, thanks for the report. Be well be safe. And we’ll have you back on to talk about the economic impacts and other impacts another time. Thank you so much.

Gary 8:59
We’re Thank you, Jason.

Jason Hartman 9:02
So I wanted to have one of our venture Alliance mastermind members and clients on the show here. He attended a small workshop by one of our frequent podcast guests, and that’s Dan Ammerman, and he’s back from that. And we are in Sarasota, Florida, where I’ve been attending a rather cheesy real estate conference, and Jeff Twigg came to rescue me. So, here is Jeff Twigg twig, we’re going to talk about a few predictions that might be very important to you as real estate investors. Jeff Twigg is a real estate agent broker and has a team here in Sarasota, Florida, and is in the brokerage side of the business as I used to be the traditional side. And let’s talk about some of these predictions from our multi time guest, Dan Ammerman. Jeff Twigg, welcome. How you doing?

Jeff Twigg 9:51
I’m doing real well. Thanks for having me, Jason.

Jason Hartman 9:53
Yeah, it’s good to have you. So tell us a little bit about your background first, and then we’ll jump into some of these predictions.

Jeff Twigg 9:58
Yeah, sure. So was born in Wisconsin moved here when to Sarasota, Florida. When I was young, my grandparents were in the real estate business. My father was in the brokerage side of the business. And so I grew up with around that.

Jason Hartman 10:11
So you’ve been around real estate for a long time. Hmm. I have I have, and you joined the venture Alliance just over a year ago. Right at our last meet the Masters conference right after meet the masters. Yeah, absolutely. Good. And tell us about what you do here. What kind of properties you sell. And just a little bit about your business, if you would?

Jeff Twigg 10:29
Yeah, sure. So I help people buy and sell homes. I primarily work with sellers on the listing side. I have agent to help us out on the buy side. And then I look for income properties on the side.

Jason Hartman 10:42
Good stuff. And after our last venture Alliance meeting or retreat in Savannah, you tried to dabble in the tax lien stuff, right? And you were surprised that the auction you were bidding on, you got beat out by someone who is willing to take a rather low return. That’s probably Right, that’ll tie in with our talk about negative interest rates and everything else. So I thought it was relevant.

Jeff Twigg 11:05
Yeah, that really surprised me. It must have been an institutional investor and investor came in and I was bidding low. It started at 18%. And it’s a bid down here in the state of Florida. Somebody came in and bid point two 5%

Jason Hartman 11:19
on all very interesting. So it is surprising to me that an investor would take such a low yield any speculation about that?

Jeff Twigg 11:30
It’s surprising to me to operate at a net loss. It is surprising to me Yeah,

Jason Hartman 11:35
it shouldn’t be surprising to anybody. That’s not the goal of this show. Our goal is to make a profit, right, profit, definitely. Okay, so Dan Ammerman, you finished his workshop, there were just four of you there right now. He’s been on the show many times. I took the same workshop you took about 12 years ago, actually in Newport Beach, California. And tell us a little bit about it. Ammerman is Not too fond to making predictions isn’t but he made a few.

Jeff Twigg 12:03
Yeah, it was a good workshop. Ammerman is a financial artist, I believe is his what you’re going to use. He really is. He’s complex. He’s high level, but he made three predictions at this workshop. And I’ve been following for four years and I have never heard of make a prediction before. So that was exciting.

Jason Hartman 12:20
So Drumroll, please. Let’s get the first prediction. Yeah. And by the way, folks, we are sitting outside at a Starbucks on a gorgeous Sarasota, Florida day. It’s a little cool and chilly. But Wow, it is absolutely beautiful outside. So you may hear some background noise. So we just want to let you know where we were located. But go ahead.

Jeff Twigg 12:42
So Dan’s predictions which he stated off the record, the government will make number one mandatory that retirement and savings accounts will have to hold treasuries, maybe between 10 to 30% treasuries,

Jason Hartman 12:58
okay. So this was well Probably one of the more fascinating predictions I thought. And so Jeff Twigg savings accounts. When when you first told me that I thought it was just retirement accounts.

Jeff Twigg 13:11
I think it’s the HSA Health Savings Account. Oh, okay.

Jason Hartman 13:14
Got it. Got it. Okay. I’m okay. And retirement accounts. Got it. So what’s interesting about that, one is think about it. The government, one of their products is treasury bills. That’s a product they create, and it finances government spending. So if the government wants to keep spending in order to buy votes and pander to certain special interest groups, then hey, why not just have a crisis? Maybe we’re in one now. We don’t know yet. Nobody ever knows. Oh, you know, maybe they engineer it or maybe they just stand by and witness it. And then they need to step in and pass a new law to protect everybody’s retirement to protect their savings and they Say, Hey, look at the best protection you can have is treasury bills, those ust bills are a pretty safe bet. Aren’t they

Jeff Twigg 14:09
risk free and in the best interest of us to protect us?

Jason Hartman 14:13
Absolutely. So given that, why not create a whole bunch of new customers to buy your treasury bills, what to do a business plan? Yeah. I mean, when you can make the laws, that’s a pretty handy position to be in, isn’t it?

Jeff Twigg 14:27
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

Jason Hartman 14:28
So that, to me, is a sign of more inflation coming, because it allows the government to spend more liberally notice that over the years, we’ve talked about how these Treasury auctions have sometimes not been very successful, and you know, a big part of it is getting foreign buyers to buy especially foreign countries and foreign buyers, you know, they can be individual investors or institutional, whatever, to buy our T bills and that process Our economy. Okay. But if we can just force the American citizens to take trillions of dollars and immediately overnight, buy more treasury bills, we got a new market, don’t we? We do.

Jeff Twigg 15:16
And all they need to do is break in, and then they can incremental incrementally step it up when they need more money. Yeah.

Jason Hartman 15:24
Wow. That’s that’s a fantastic deal for the government. Okay, so what’s the next prediction he made? The next

Jeff Twigg 15:30
prediction he made was that the Roth IRA is going to have changes and it’s likely that it may go away.

Jason Hartman 15:40
Yeah, now this is one that does not surprise me because I never converted my IRA to a Roth. And the reason is I just don’t trust the government. And I thought that look, you want to try and avoid and that was an armored car going by with the money going to get Treasury Yeah. That was funny. So you want to try and avoid, to whatever extent possible, living under a government that is broke and hungry. And that’s one of the reasons I really was fearful of the California government. Because few governments are more broken hungry than California. And I saw the price of speeding tickets go up and I haven’t had a ticket. Gosh, since 1997, I don’t think but um, I remember a taxi driver. I was riding in his car and he was telling me he got a speeding ticket. And with like a late fee, it was like $1,000 I couldn’t believe it. And they use the police as the modern day tax collector. They use government agencies to go out and find people and find businesses to charge them finds the the Air Quality Management District which is not exactly a governmental agency. They make their money finding businesses, okay in California, for not having enough carpool spots in their parking lot, and not making it difficult enough. For people that are driving solo to work to park, they got to make it really difficult for them to make it their parking space very far away. And if the companies don’t obey this, they find them. Okay. So these are all, you know, whether you’ve got the power of the government directly or like you’re deputized by the government by like the aq MD, right? You’ve got a government situation where they are hungry for money, and they’re going to use whatever means possible to get it from you. Okay? So on this level, and this is a federal government level, okay. So you know, you, the US is a great country, and you probably want to live there as I do, and I’m a big fan of living in the States. But if you can be in a state, at least, that’s not broke and starving and using its powers to take your money. Okay. So that’s one part of it. But the Roth IRA I always thought that was low hanging fruit for the government because you got all these accounts where people paid the tax to convert from a traditional IRA to a Roth. And then they can just come along and change the rules and say, Hey, we’re sorry, we need the money, or some other excuse, this now is going to be treated just like a traditional IRA, or we’re not going to allow any more of I don’t know why they wouldn’t allow any more of them, though, because they do have the advantage of collecting tax today. So that’s probably going to be like a retroactive thing. I’m guessing. Did he elaborate on that?

Jeff Twigg 18:37
He gave some more specifics. He speculated around moving the changing the age, and just making you have to hold on to it for longer, right, and then what you hold in that Roth IRA? Yeah. And so

Jason Hartman 18:50
so they might have a separate tax rate that’s maybe lower for Roth people, and they probably won’t call it a tax like an income tax like when you take distributions from your traditional IRA. They’ll just call it some sort of fee distribution fee or something, and it’s really just a tax. But yeah, I just never trusted that. I thought, I thought the government’s going to get their hands in there somewhere

Jeff Twigg 19:12
and other he Ammerman made it clear that they will market it to be in the best interest of the public,

Jason Hartman 19:20
of course. All right.

Jeff Twigg 19:22
And I will say at the core concept of the workshop was based around the national debt that nobody seems to be talking about, and how that plays into other industries. So

Jason Hartman 19:33
now when you say the national debt, nobody seems to be talking about are you just talking about the traditional national debt? That seems like a lot of people are talking about, or is this more of a phantom national debt?

Jeff Twigg 19:43
No, it’s the real national debt. I read the Wall Street Journal on a daily basis. It’s not grabbing headlines. Well, right now with the Coronavirus, not it’s not grabbing headlines, but I don’t it’s been crowded out by other headlines, you know, in the political primaries that are recently You know, nobody brought it up. Nobody brought up this grown and the FOMC has a you know that the Congressional Budget out the next 10 years over a trillion deficit in addition to where we are right now.

Jason Hartman 20:12
Oh, so and that’s, that’s with our current administration, probably. But if, if we get a Democrat, right, we’re going to be looking at an additional four to $5 trillion added to the deficit, right? That’s going to be unbelievable. I mean, that’s going to be so crippling, but not for investors, dividends, inflation, so that’ll be great for investors following our plan, right. I heard

Jeff Twigg 20:35
40 trillion in 10 years with Bernie Sanders. Oh, my

Jason Hartman 20:39
God. It’s incredible. Right is on. Wow. So the last prediction, basically a doubling of the deficit, or the debt. That’s the data. Yeah. On

Jeff Twigg 20:49
top of their current Yeah.

Jason Hartman 20:51
Well, why wouldn’t it be just do the math, four years in office and 5 trillion a year is 20 trillion more. So there you go. Yeah, that’s easy, easy math. What would happen very easily?

Jeff Twigg 21:03
Yeah, go ahead. So the the third prediction he made was that the government would introduce means testing for Social Security. So before when you go to apply for Social Security, they’re going to want to collect a complete detailed financial picture of your current standards to make a determination if you’re going to qualify for Social Security benefits that you’ve already paid into.

Jason Hartman 21:24
So Bernie Madoff, not Sanders. Bernie Madoff said that he got the idea for his Ponzi scheme from the US Social Security system, and you’ve paid into this, right, you’ve paid into it, you deserve money back. If you became successful, wildly successful, you should get your money back, just like if you paid into an annuity or a savings account. You know, if you were on a savings program where you discipline yourself to save extra money each month and auto deposited into your savings account, you should get that back. But now you’ve got to be needy. To get the money, and not only that, you have to apply and provide a detailed financial picture to qualify for Social Security. That’s what he’s predicting. Right?

Jeff Twigg 22:14
That sucks disincentivizing becoming successful.

Jason Hartman 22:18
Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So you don’t want to be successful because then you’re not going to get anything. Okay, which is already the way we have it in a lot of ways. So, that’s quite interesting. Any other sort of broad takeaways or specific ones, Jeff Twigg? Um, you know, there’s tons of graphs and charts in this book we’re looking at here together. It’s sort of hard to share them necessarily with the audience, but just whatever else you want to mention.

Jeff Twigg 22:40
Yeah, sure. So when I go to a workshop like this, I’m a real estate. I’m a real estate investor. That is how my mind is thinking while he’s going through the details of this presentation. And one big takeaway that I that I got and Dan Ammerman calls it an asset liability management strategy in hlm.

Jason Hartman 22:59
Yes, it is. lm and this

Jeff Twigg 23:00
is our strategy. This is right. Yeah. So it’s great. It’s called something different, but it is we did a test case of 20% inflation. And he did all the numbers all the graphs 20% inflation 50% asset deflation, we checked all the investment classes, multiple combinations of investment classes.

Jason Hartman 23:21
Let me just comment on that. So what that means, I think, is that there was consumer price inflation, but the assets are deflating in that example. Okay. So what that means is that all the prices of your cost of living go up, but say real estate stocks, precious metals, assets, bonds, they deflate in value, so a decline they a recession or depression level type of thing. So give us those numbers again, if you would, and then tell us how it all worked out. Sure. So we

Jeff Twigg 23:54
have inflation, consumer price inflation of 20%. So Right, right. And then asset deflation of 50%. So your current asset value, which again cut it in half, right? So, that is the scenario, the environment, the investing environment landscape of the model.

Jason Hartman 24:14
Okay, so now No, this is not a prediction. This is just an example he used to show how the asset liability management, right,

Jeff Twigg 24:23
the DA lm,

Jason Hartman 24:25
the LM performs, if the worst happens, right, okay, so the worst has happened. But since you’ve got inflation and do stet destruction in here, I’m guessing and I don’t know what you’re gonna say. This is gonna work out at least to mitigate losses, right or how’s it worked out?

Jeff Twigg 24:42
Yeah. So it works out in year one. So in all the other asset classes, catastrophic losses in year one with the LMS liability management strategy, they have a negative point 5% real return without cash. flows. So this is on income property on income property, your 120 percent inflation 50% asset deflation and still a real return on your one, just a

Jason Hartman 25:11
very slight return, but it’s positive, but it’s positive and everything else in the world every other asset classes negative every

Jeff Twigg 25:17
catastrophic. Yeah, negative

Jason Hartman 25:18
50% decline and Okay,

Jeff Twigg 25:21
the LM strategy recovers, it continues to rise from there, so you never actually lose any money. So if you can imagine the environment 20% inflation, your assets are the values

Jason Hartman 25:34
cut in half, and the cost of living is rising fast. Right, right.

Jeff Twigg 25:37
So you’re losing everywhere else, but with this strategy, basically, you cannot lose. Okay, so

Jason Hartman 25:44
that’s because we’re paying the debt on the property back the property’s got to be leveraged for that to work, right. Yes. So asset you have that the property liability, which is another asset, which is more which is the mortgage but it’s really an asset in our world, right. But yes, most people call it a liability

Jeff Twigg 25:59
right? What Dan Ammerman does in this the management part is you manage the asset with the liability. This is what the largest institutions who he used to work for. That’s how they evaluate expression.

Jason Hartman 26:11
Yeah. So Dan is a Chartered Financial Analyst. And his strategy of turning inflation into wealth has been he does a good job creating examples about this and articulating it because that’s really using that inflation induced step destruction to our benefit. I mean, think about it, everybody, this isn’t hard to figure out. You don’t need to do any real math here. Okay? If any asset in the world say that you’ve just got a totally diversified portfolio. You’ve got precious metals, you’ve got stocks, you’ve got bonds, you’ve got real estate, you’ve got everything, every asset out there, right. And those assets depreciate by 50%. None of those other assets except your income property have debt against them. They’d none of them have a super cheap mortgage, that benefits from inflation induced debt destruction. So what he calls this is the liability driven inflation arbitrage. Isn’t that interesting? I call it the double inflation arbitrage. And I’ve been saying that for 16 years now, before I even knew Dan was. That’s that’s fascinating, because then you just slip the paper to me. liability driven inflation arbitrage I love it, or as Hartman would say, the double inflation arbitrage.

Jeff Twigg 27:31
So Ehrman said this is the only option that we have as individuals to use the same strategies that the institutions

Jason Hartman 27:42
and the institutions use them because they’re using the same principles. We’re using the principles of self liquidating debt, the principles of the double inflation arbitrage or what does he call it? a liability. Sorry, folks. We got notes out here and it’s a little windy and the liability Driven inflation arbitrage. Yeah, okay. I like I think mine’s easier. Double inflation arbitrage is easier. So yeah, good stuff, any other takeaways or impressions and let’s wrap it up,

Jeff Twigg 28:10
just that we’re in good hands. You know, I spoke with a couple other guys at the workshop when we were having lunch and had coffee afterwards. And I asked them, are you guys feeling like I’m feeling rushed? Do you want to rush out and acquire more income properties more debt more, I want to take on more debt. But the other attendees, they were talking about gold. They were talking about stocks. And that was just fascinating to me. And but it told me that we just need to continue to stay the course.

Jason Hartman 28:39
So one guy you did mention a couple of the attendees to me, yeah, one guy had a company sold for around $50 million. And he came because he said he doesn’t want to pay money manager. He just wants to learn it himself and figure out how to manage his his wealth. But another one you told me I think was a retiree, I believe, who purchased a property in one of Our markets Cape Coral, Florida, okay. And he had a bunch of assets. And he said the property did the best I think of all right. Tell us about that.

Jeff Twigg 29:09
Yeah. So he had bought this property in Cape Coral in 2012. And he planned to buy it rented for a few years, then I’ll retire there. And when he retired, and they reviewed his assets, he had had a grandchild to come. So he had planned not to move down to Cape Coral, but it was his top performing asset. And so

Jason Hartman 29:29
and did he have a bunch of other assets like a diversified asset base,

Jeff Twigg 29:32
what he held everything gold stocks, bonds, I mean, he seemed to dabble in everything, everything on everything. And this was by far the most superior investment return that he was receiving.

Jason Hartman 29:44
That’s fantastic. Hey, like we said at the beginning, you were at our venture Alliance retreat in Savannah, Georgia, you got interested in the tax sale world, and you just took that course you bought that course that we were emailing about. I didn’t know this till today. Yeah. Tell us about that. that a little bit,

Jeff Twigg 30:00
yes, I listened to the webinar. And one of the first things that was announced is this is a business, to qualifications, you need to want to help people and you need to want to make money. So I was immediately drawn in by that. And then I learned that you can be completely mobile, and basically help the regular general public get money that’s owed for them that the government is trying to keep it and so

Jason Hartman 30:22
so you can do a good deed for the person. But you also get to stick it to the man Yeah. Government’s holding on this money. Right. And, and you can have a mobile

Jeff Twigg 30:31
lifestyle, right. And there’s no income cap. So that was important to us. And

Jason Hartman 30:35
it’s just you and your wife. No, kids. Right. Right. Right. So so you could be mobile. Yeah. And right now, you don’t have a mobile business. Right. Right now you’re geographically in traditional real estate. I felt the same way. And I just wanted to move I wanted to get out of California for so many years, right? I had it took me a long time to make my life a little more portable, so I could do that. And

Jeff Twigg 30:54
it’s tough to go to a new market and start that business. Relationship business like that just takes

Jason Hartman 30:59
too long. too long, too much effort, right? But the thing I like about that that tax sale business is that you don’t really spend any real money on it necessarily. You don’t have to, I mean, just nominal minor amounts of money. The only thing you can really lose is the cost of the course. And you know, maybe some nominal filing fees or mailing fees and your time. That’s it. So the risk is just your time, but with your time you always learn stuff to write. So

Jeff Twigg 31:29
yeah, I look, even if you take a course and you spend the money just to learn that it’s not the right thing for you, then you’ve just bought that future time for yourself to do something that is right for you. You’re gonna have to learn anything new.

Jason Hartman 31:42
Yeah, no, definitely true about that. Hey, Jeff, do you want to give out your website or anything or if people are looking for Sarasota area properties or looking to sell properties in Sarasota? Jeff Twigg is your guy

Jeff Twigg 31:52
you can find me at Jeff twig homes calm that’s je ff TW gg homes.com

Jason Hartman 32:00
Hey, Jeff, thanks for joining us. And we’ll see you at the next venture Alliance event or meet the masters. Everything’s kind of on hold right now given what’s going on in the world. But hopefully this will be passed us in a couple of months. And, of course, we’re talking about COVID-19, folks, and hopefully life will get back to normal pretty soon. Thanks for joining us. Thank you,

Jeff Twigg 32:19
Jason. It was a real pleasure. And thanks for all the guidance you provide for me and other investments.

Jason Hartman 32:24
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