Holistic Survival
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Telemedicine, Steve Hochberg, The Phillips Curve, Elliott Wave

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Elliott Wave

Jason Hartman starts the show by explaining The Phillips Curve and its relevance to our current economic situation. Despite the challenges that the pandemic has brought, many benefits have become popular. One such benefit is telemedicine and telehealth. This applies not just to humans but to veterinary practices on pets as well. In the interview segment, Steve Hochberg explains the Elliot Wave. He goes into the debt of the US and the average citizen.

Announcer 0:01
This show was produced by the Hartman media company. For more information and links to all our great podcasts, visit Hartman media.com.

Announcer 0:11
Welcome to the holistic survival show with Jason Hartman. The economic storm brewing around the world is set to spill into all aspects of our lives. Are you prepared? Where are you going to turn for the critical life skills necessary to survive and prosper? The holistic survival show is your family’s insurance for a better life. Jason will teach you to think independently to understand threats and how to create the ultimate action plan. sudden change or worst case scenario. You’ll be ready. Welcome to ballistic survival, your key resource for protecting the people, places and profits you care about in uncertain times. Ladies and gentlemen, your host Jason Hartman

Jason Hartman 1:00
Thank you for joining me today from 189 countries worldwide. Hey, speaking of countries, North Korea is in the news. You’ve heard the rumors. Has Kim Jong Hoon passed away? We don’t know. I guess nobody in the non hermit world meaning North Korea, obviously the the hermit regime the hermit country probably doesn’t know the answer yet. But there are conflicting schools of thought on what will happen if he does pass. Number one that I want to mention that it’s not the number one theory. It’s just the one I want to mention is Jim Rogers. What he said i thought was very interesting. Now Jim has been on the show three times before. He’s the very famous author and hedge fund manager. You see him in the news all the time. And he predicted that North Korea would fall that it would open up that it would bring a bunch of inexpensive labor to the world now granted this labor, what kind of knowledge are they going to have? What kind of skills I don’t know? I’m not quite as optimistic as Jim Rogers is about that, but nonetheless, it would become a very interesting region for for many years to come. The other theory that I guess the taking places that Kim’s sister would take over, and supposedly she is far more vicious than he is, or was, we don’t know. And would rule within with an iron hand even even worse than when than he did. So. Who knows what will happen, but let’s hope for the best. It would be so great to see North Korea open up and I’ll tell you something, even though nobody’s traveling now, and I’m not even thinking about traveling, and I’m enjoying the quarantine. I know, I’m weird. I know. It’s hard on a lot of people. But I honestly I kind of like it. It’s just nice to not have to go anywhere. And, you know, it’s I’ve said this before, maybe you’ve heard it. It’s the first time in my life when I have like no sense of FOMO You know, you know the acronym FOMO fear of missing out previously, if the world were functioning as it normally does, you know, if I’m not going somewhere, if I’m not on a trip, if I’m not going to a conference, I’ll open up social media. And I’ll see all my friends are at this great conference, and I’m missing out. Or my friends are on this great trip around the Mediterranean, and I’m missing out. And so you have that FOMO. And the FOMO concept really ties in very much with the keeping up with the Joneses idea. And I’m not saying that any of this is good or even psychologically healthy at all. I don’t think it is. But it just is luck. That’s the way we’re all wired. I know you’re wired that way too. You may. You may claim to be immune from it, but you’re not because guess what I know about you. I know that you’re human. I know that you have the same basic wiring I do and everybody else does. I know we have the same nervous system, the same brain parts the same free historic mentality We use the same fight or flight response. And I know you have the same set of emotions. So that’s what I know about you. So anyway, it’s interesting, but yeah, no concept of FOMO at all, which by the way, as I predict how the recovery will go from this catastrophe of the first self imposed, depression, or recession or depression, we’ll see we’ll see. But as I predict it will be the modified square root symbol. I may have mentioned that to you before the modified square root symbol, and more to come in my upcoming pandemic investing course that’s turned into an entire course now, and we’re going to do it virtually. And you know, what many of you are asking me to do my creating wealth, one day conference virtually or the Jq conference virtually, and you know what, I’m into it. We’re gonna do all of this stuff. You know, I have learned in this past several weeks and probably you have to how to do things better. Virtually you No creative destruction. Joseph Schumpeter, the economist, Joseph Schumpeter. We’re all learning to do this and yesterday I mentioned that my dog’s veterinarian said download the telemedicine app. Well, guess what? Today, right before I started recording, I got an email from my doctor, and my doctor, I had asked previously if I could have a telemedicine appointment. And guess what they said, No, we don’t do that here. And by the way, my doctor is with a bid, you know, medical company, right with lots of doctors, lots of resources, lots of technology. Anyway, I just got an email. The doctor is ready to see you dash and you don’t even have to leave your home. And it’s a picture of a person holding an iPad, having a virtual meeting with their doctor. Seriously folks, telemedicine is long overdue. We’re finally there for the veterinarian and the human doctors. The good stuff that is coming out of this is measurable. And if I didn’t really make a point yesterday, the lagging, increases in efficiency that will be generated from this and making the economy more friction less, making showings of properties more frictionless. And Oh, and by the way, thank you, for all of you who joined our webinar on Friday and Saturday, was great success. We got great reviews on it. So thank you for joining us for that. And you all asked a bunch of great questions. And hopefully we’ve answered all of those. If we haven’t yet. Please make sure you get with your investment counselor, either through Jason hartman.com. Or if you already have one, you can just email him direct, or calling one 800 Hartman and we’ll be happy to help you with any follow up any questions, comments, or concerns about the webinars that we had? And some of you asked about the electronic lock in showing system that the property manager presented on that webinar and hopefully we’ve provided all that information to those Have you who asked by now, but again, if not reach out to us. But look, folks, these efficiencies will are making business more efficient. You know, I doubt my doctor. And I know my veterinarian didn’t reduce their price for their exam fee. But I do know that they’re going to increase their efficiency. So when they increase their efficiency, what happens? their businesses more successful, it’s more stable. They’ve got more money to spend into the economy, and the economy grows. This isn’t all bad news that’s happening. We’ve heard all the bad news, but there’s a lot of good news coming out of this, okay. And these increases in efficiency will be with us forever into the future, because people are learning how to do things virtually. It’s a great thing. Okay, we’re gonna get to part two of our Elliott Wave discussion from yesterday. And by the way, part two is better than part one. I didn’t tell you part one wasn’t as good yesterday that I had Nope, part two is better. You’ll like what we talked about today as we just wrap up this interview. And we’ll get to that in a moment. But first, I want to talk to you about something I’ve alluded to before, and maybe didn’t go into it deep enough, because it’s particularly applicable. Now. It’s an economics concept that I have mentioned before. It’s called the Phillips Curve. And the Phillips Curve, I was talking about it on Facebook with one of my economists buddies today. And this is a really important concept. And again, it has its has its proponents, it has its detractors. Some say it was disproven by what happened in the 1970s. And let’s just go into this a little bit. Okay. So the Phillips curve is this economic concept, and it was developed by someone named a W. Phillips, okay, an economist. And basically the idea is that unemployment rates the rate unemployment and the rate of inflation have this inverse relationship. Okay? In other words, when you know, when the economy is doing well, it’s booming, you’re naturally going to have inflation, because, hey, look what happens. People have a wealth effect, they have more money to spend, they feel very optimistic consumer confidence is high, and they’re willing to spend without much care. And this not only applies to the individual, but applies to businesses too. Right? So companies will spend more money, they’ll hire more people, they’ll do more advertising programs. They’ll buy more machinery and equipment. You know, maybe if they’ve got maybe it’s a small business that has a couple of trucks to do deliveries or service or whatever they do. And maybe they’ll buy some more trucks and hire some more drivers, right? People are feeling good. So as they spend their money into the system, Naturally, you have more dollars chasing a somewhat limited, although it’s not completely inelastic supply of goods and services, so you naturally have the inflationary pressures that’s natural and most everybody listening can understand how that happens, right? And then when you have unemployment, and things are bad like they are now, when you have unemployment, you generally have deflationary pressures, because people don’t have all that money to spend into the system. And so you have supplies, and you have demand destruction. Remember, we’ve talked a lot recently about supply demand shock, which by the way, we’re definitely experiencing and we’re going to experience a lot more of it to come my prediction, and that’s because supply chains have been damaged. First, the demand is destroyed. And we’ve already seen a lot of that. I mean, how much demand is there for air travel cruises, restaurants, and haircuts and well, actually There’s quite a bit of demand for haircuts. But there’s no supply. A friend of mine today got a haircut. And I’m like, I asked, I said, Hey, do you have some underground connection here? Is there a gray market? You know, barber that’s open, because I want to go, I need a haircut too. Hey, this is the first time in my life, or at least in the last 15 years, and I’m going to say this right here for the first time. I have too much hair.

Jason Hartman 11:28
I actually have too much hair. I can’t imagine. I’m gonna think that very often. But yeah, hair needs to cut. And so we have a supply destruction there. So if I could get a haircut right now, I would pay triple the normal price that I pay, just to get it right. So that’s an example right there of supply demand shock. And I think I shared with you the other day, the example of checking the airfare prices and it’s another perfect example. So more of that to come. But the detractors of the Phillips Curve, save The concept was debunked in the 70s. Because in the 70s, we have this unique situation, which I say, we’re coming into again, and we’re going to have it again. So you can’t accuse me of being an optimist. Okay, I’m definitely not being optimistic about where we’re going. Because we definitely have some real, real problems. Make sure you heard heard me say that. I just think that you can position yourself around it, and actually do quite well through this whole crisis. You know, you got to have some things in your own house in order to take advantage of it got to have a job or an income. It’s not for everybody, but I’m saying most of you listening because I know who our listeners are, can definitely take advantage of the situation. And at the very least, you can tread water while others are sinking. But at the very best, you can do a lot better than that. Okay? In the 70s. What did we have, you know what I’m gonna say stagflation. We had a comeback. of the misery index. And under Jimmy Carter, we have this terrible, very undesirable situation where we had high inflation and high unemployment at the same time. So the inverse relationship that we would normally expect to see if the Phillips Curve was always right. It was, you know, the Phillips Curve was on the bench, it took a break. It didn’t work in the stagflation airy environment. And I think coming up in the future, it’s also going to be its detractors will say, see, see the Phillips Curve doesn’t work right. But I think generally the concept does work. I think there are those just those rare bouts of stagnation or I should I don’t mean stagnation. I mean, stagflation. stagflation. There is a difference. By the way, stagnation is just when everything stops, right. Well, I guess you can argue that’s what we’ve had. Recently stagnation, but stagflation Where you have the inflation of the high unemployment and the low GDP all at the same time, right? And so you can’t always use the same tools to fix these problems. For example, we’ve seen the monetary and fiscal policy remember monetary policy comes from the central banks. And fiscal policy comes from the government fiscal policy is how much can you tax how much can you spend? monetary policy is how much money can you print? How much money can you create out of thin air fiat money? You know, you’ve all heard the people that say that which by the way, fiat money, it just ain’t true. Folks. Remember, I talked to you the other day about the 18 aircraft carriers that the US maintains, okay. And you know, who you know, the dollars not backed by gold? Oh, if it’s not backed by gold, it can’t be real. It’s gonna collapse. Oh, seriously, if I hear that one more time. You know, it’s just that that talk about something that’s been debunked, that theory has been debunked a million times. Okay, as the Peter shifts of the world has been, have been saying that the dollar is going to collapse, and the US is going to become this third rate country, you know, keep on predicting for decades and decades that that’s gonna happen. But at the end of the day, who’s got the aircraft carriers? That’s what’s gonna keep it from collapsing. Okay, so, you know, yes, someday, someday you’ll be right. But I’m, I have a feeling you won’t be alive for that day. Okay. Anyway, so we’re Where are we? Where were we senior moment here, folks? Okay, so monetary policy. Well, it’s not just about how much money you can create out of thin air. This, you know, fiat money, right. It is backed by aircraft carriers and missiles, but maybe not gold. So it’s not just how much you can Create in terms of money, but it’s also the general tightening and loosening that goes on, which is part of the QE or quantitative easing concept, for sure. But it’s not all of that, right? Because the banks can say, Okay, we’ll tighten the reserve ratio or we’ll loosen the reserve ratio. And by just doing that, you’re not really creating money per se, but you are allowing more money to flood into the system. And so it’s a really complicated thing. I mean, listen, I doubt even I really doubt even that Alan Greenspan or Ben Bernanke, he or Jerome Powell or Janet Yellen, you know, our current and past Federal Reserve chairs, really even fully understand how the system works. I certainly don’t pretend to but we understand some little pieces of it. It is a super complex system. There are so many levers and buttons and toggles and That’s it’s just truly boggles the mind. So anyway, the central banks and the governments, you know, they have this target rate of inflation, and the US has that target rate of about 2%. And in that environment, they hope to keep inflation at about 2% and keep unemployment low and manage the Phillips Curve. Now, when I was talking with my buddy on Facebook today, by the way, I asked him to be on the show. I’m gonna reach out to him again, see if we can get him on. He talked about Ray Dalio, his plan. And of course, you’ve heard the name Ray Dalio. We’ve talked about him on the show before. He’s the big big time billionaire hedge fund guy. And Ray’s idea was that basically, let me just summarize this for you quickly, and we’ll get to part two of Elliot wave theory. So my friend also named Jason says Ray Dalio has some really interesting thoughts and ideas here. Long story short, he proposes that instead of using common fiscal policy of fluctuating interest rates and quantitative easing, that we instead fixed interest rates at around zero percent and fluctuate taxation instead, basically, during times of high productivity, where demand and inflation will, by definition be increasing. We increase taxes and pull money out of the economy and pay off accrued debts during times of lower productivity. In other words, GDP is down. Unemployment is high economy’s in a slump. We decrease taxes to provide stimulus because when you decrease taxes, you put more money in the system. That’s the Laffer curve, the reagan trickle down theory of economics, which by the way, does generally work. Okay, if you’re not a Reagan fan, well, sorry, you’re just wrong. Because that actually does work. Now. It doesn’t work perfectly. Okay. The distribution is always unequal. I get it, but it generally works. Okay, if done properly, we should be able to keep employment full and be able to regulate the money supply and be able to modulate the economic curve through changes in taxation and money supply instead of changes of interest rate, interest rates and money supply. And I think what he meant to say there really is money creation, because the supply of money would come from lower taxes. That’s how you would increase the money supply to stimulate the economy, you’d lower taxes. And then when the economy was good, you’d raise taxes to tighten supply of money. Okay. It’s an interesting concept that Dalio talks about. It’s kind of a modification of, Well, it certainly is another way to manage the Phillips Curve. And it’s also a way to sort of modify the system we have now and it would make it a lot more transparent because you would see the tax rates rather than the monkey business that goes beyond behind the goes on. Behind the Scenes nowadays, but anyway, quite interesting way to manage the Phillips Curve. But it all comes back to the Phillips Curve concept. So that’s what I wanted to share with you today. Okay, without further ado, let’s get to part two of the Elliot wave theory.

Jason Hartman 20:19
In part three of the book, you’ve got talking about protecting yourself, and you’ve got many asset classes listed bonds, real estate, collectibles, cash, you know, just staying in cash, you know, then you talk about how to find a safe bank. I mean, are we looking at a banking problem this time around? We certainly had one last time around. Oh, yeah. And when and we never saw that.

Jason Hartman 20:42
Well, yeah, we Yeah, we’re definitely it’s like we said before we went on the air today, you know, come on the way the way governments around the world and central banks around the world solve problems today is when there’s a fire they throw gasoline on it, which means when there’s too much debt, they just add some more debt.

Steve Hochberg 20:59
Right and And that’s the problem, because we haven’t really, we haven’t really solved we haven’t our debt structures not in line with our income structure right now. There’s too much debt. I think the GDP last I saw was about 20 $22 trillion. We have about 70, I think 71 or $72 trillion of total credit market debts or 3.2 times we’re so in debt, well, you’re you’re you’re doing total you’re

Jason Hartman 21:27
not doing national debt, then

Steve Hochberg 21:30
I’m doing total credit market debt because because it’s a debt. It’s a it’s a owed by someone. So I don’t think we’ve really corrected what we why No, we haven’t corrected what we’ve accumulated, even through the credit crisis of 2007 2009. And that, I think that needs to be brought back in line. If you look at historical debt levels, for example, the 1920s or even even the 1970s we’re in that really bad bear market debt levels were much more in line with income levels and we’re we’ve gotten way out of whack. So

Jason Hartman 22:00
Income means tax revenues or total income of government households corporate versus Yeah, total data of government households.

Steve Hochberg 22:10
Right. Right doesn’t mean right total total income levels of everything. What’s interesting is that the Fed just had what the media is calling QE infinity. I mean, they basically backed. Yeah, they basically threw money at as, as you said, but what’s what’s interesting is that, that everything the Fed has said they’re going to do has been backed by the Treasury, the Treasury has pledged to cover any losses that the Fed is going to incur through their lending programs. At some point that can’t go on forever because of the Treasury’s receipts or tax receipts are falling. So at some point, the Treasury is going to say, I’m sorry, said that we can’t back everything that you’re promising right now because we just don’t have the receipts coming in. And our debt levels are out of out of whack and at some point, people are just going to not buy American and the mean they’re gonna just mean the dollar will crash and, and interest rates will spike and because they just have too much debt relative to the income we’ve got coming in. Oh,

Jason Hartman 23:08
so as I said, we’re in the biggest money printing extravaganza in world history. And there’s more to come, by the way, this, isn’t it. But the question is, how do you know that? You know, how if we look at the debt to GDP ratio, right now, it’s high, okay. It’s like, I don’t know, 70% or something like that. I think, don’t quote me on that one. I’m sort of pulling it out of memory. But it’s high. Right? everybody would agree with that. And since we’re in uncharted territory, how do we know what that limit is? You know, if you look at the typical household and just go with me on this thought experiment for a second maybe isn’t analogous but if a typical person you know household between, you know, a couple say living in a house earns $100,000 a year They buy a $400,000 house. And that $400,000 house has a $300,000 mortgage. And they got another hundred grand in student debt. And they’ve got another 50 grand in car loans, just for example. So what do they have there? They have $450,000 in debt they make $100,000 a year. Do they have too much debt? I don’t know, you know, they financed the house over three decades, the interest rates are super low. The student loans are a complete ripoff, of course, but, you know, the rates on those are even low. You know, I don’t know, do they? How do we know I have too much debt. You know,

Steve Hochberg 24:37
I’m going to answer this from an Elliott Wave perspective. We, and I can’t we can’t speak to individual situations because those are individuals but we can can speak to the aggregate. And the way you know you have too much is is through the wave patterns through the structure of the market. When the market completes an Elliot wave a rally of which we call a five way rally pattern. That means that psychology has reached its its extreme optimism has reached its elevated high point, its peak point, and it’s ready to reverse. And all of these debt levels can continue to expand willy nilly as long as optimism is high and of optimism high people will borrow will start businesses. People listen to popular music they hemlines on their skirts rise. I mean, a lot of things happen throughout society.

Jason Hartman 25:28
They do have, by the way, listeners, they do have a skirt metric. Okay, when the skirts get shorter, we’re optimistic about the economy get longer, we’re pessimistic example. Look at the roaring 20s. The short dresses flapper dresses, right, so it’s funny.

Steve Hochberg 25:46
Yeah, I mean, and there’s a lot and there’s another thing for example, at peak levels of optimism, you tend to get what we call the skyscraper indicator. Yes. A lot of heard about that all buildings are built. And so how do we know When we’ve reached that limit and debt is when optimism has reached its peak and starts to reverse. And we go toward that next extreme and pessimism. We do that correction, as we call it an Elliott Wave terminology, an ABC decline. That’s when we know we hit the limit and debt levels will start contracting after that. So but you’re an esoteric,

Jason Hartman 26:19
Got it? Got it. That was good. But you’re talking about people in society and that’s fine, right? I’m talking about government. everybody complains, the debt to GDP ratio is too high. It’s out of whack that we’re going to have the dollar is going to crash, it’s gonna lose its value. It’s not going to be the reserve currency of the world anymore, which I think is ridiculous. I think those people they’ve been wrong, wrong wrong for decades. But maybe Peter Schiff will be right someday. I don’t know. You know, I mean, how do we know how much debt to GDP a country can handle? I mean, even Japan, is no one would argue that it’s doing well. But they’ve got other problems. They have a demographic problem. They like zero immigration, right. They have no young people coming in. And that economy has been stagnant for a long time. And they have really high debt debt to GDP. I think it’s like 229%. It’s like triple what ours is. And we have the reserve currency and they don’t. All

Steve Hochberg 27:22
right, but my but the way I’m looking at it, and my answer is that is broad its macro and get can be sustained and expand as long as optimism is high. And when that changes, and we think we’re in the process of that changing, then you have a problem, then then get even though you’re financing your debt, it is essentially zero percent interest rates, it’s still debt, you still owe it to someone and, and the debt accumulates to a level where it’s simply as unsustainable to be serviced through the revenue stream that you got throughout the economy. I think we’re there right now. And we’re in a process of retrenchment. Which is a very healthy process, but it’s extremely painful for people who aren’t prepared for it. And that’s kind of what Bob was trying to accomplish or is trying to accomplish and conquer the crash 2020 is to get people prepared in that you don’t have to get caught up in it, the markets may go down, things might retrench prices, asset prices might go down. But if you’re prepared for it, and you’re safe, you’re going to have tremendous buying opportunities, when we finally do hit that ultimate bottom.

Jason Hartman 28:27
Okay, so last question for you. I know we got to wrap it up and sorry, kept you a little long here. But you’re very interesting. So of any asset class out there, and I know you talk about real estate as a monolith and you kind of have to because that’s why everybody talks about it, but we know it’s not so we understand that okay, there’s different types of real estate in different markets, obviously, but is is any asset class on this list. Good. like would you would you buy bonds, collectibles, stocks, keep your money in cash. You know, what’s, what’s the recommendation?

Steve Hochberg 29:02
I think there’s a huge bull market starting right now and it’s the bull market in cash. No one wants cash, cash pays us zero essentially, it’s just sitting there. But one thing we did in this month’s issue of our newsletter which I write with my partner, Peter Kendall, it’s called the Elliott Wave financial forecast, as we showed a chart of the Dow Industrials inverted, because when you invert the Dow, what you’re really talking about is cash relative to equities. And we’re starting, in our opinion, a huge bull market in cash. And so what our overarching recommendations to investors right now is be safe. There’s really no downside and safety right now, besides short term cash or cash equivalents, such as floating rate notes from the Treasury, you’re not gonna get a huge return on your money, but you’re going to get a return on your money and I think in certain environments, and they’re rare. Throughout history, I think we’re in one of those rare environments right now. were being in cash is going to allow you to pick up assets for for literally 10 cents on the dollar as we go through this retrenchment and we finally get to the end of the bear market and then you can step in and and really increase your wealth exponentially after that.

Jason Hartman 30:15
Yeah, so that cash is okay, as long as we don’t have inflation and all the inflation bugs and gold bugs out there and gold is doing fairly well. And I’m not a gold bug, just so you know, but you know, it’s kind of coming back. You know, they would say with all this money printing, we’re going to have massive inflation and cash is gonna get destroyed. But you think the opposite No,

Steve Hochberg 30:39
I think we think the exact opposite and it’s all explained in conquer the crash 2020 The problem is not dollar bills, we can print all the dollar bills you want the problem is credit and credit can be extinguished faster than you can print dollar bills. And so when you what, what deflation really is is a contraction in the volume money and credit. Everyone focuses. I

Jason Hartman 31:02
know, I told you that I was saying the same thing in 2008. You know, everybody was on TV saying, well, the money supply, and I’m gonna Well, what about the credit supply? You know, money. It’s it’s, it’s cash plus available credit. That’s what determines how much money there really is, you know in terms of the money supply? I totally agree with you on that. But why? Why is it that you can extinguish credit faster than you can print dollar bills seems like we can print dollar bills pretty fast.

Steve Hochberg 31:32
All you have to do is not pay your loan. And now there’s a default there’s a de facto default. So that’s the problem right there. We have plenty of dollar bills circulating in society. It’s just the credit we need expanding in order to keep things going. And I think that’s the problem that we’re facing right now. So I think being in cash right now, I don’t think inflation is inflation might be the problem hyperinflation might be the problem. I think after you you go through The deflationary phase. And for example, Gold’s a good example, you say gold has been rallying but actually gold topped in 1921 back in 2011. I mean, we’ve been in a bear market. I don’t like gold. I know I’m not. Yeah, you don’t have to convince me. So, yeah, so I think that once we get through the deflation, then we’ll have to kind of see where we go from there. It could be stagflation. It could be hyperinflation, we can’t see that far around the corner. But we do see right ahead of us and we think we’re, we’re going into a deflationary period here. Yeah.

Jason Hartman 32:33
And I disagree with you. I think we’re going into a stagflation airy period. And either way, they’re both unpleasant. So we can agree on that. But yeah. unpleasant for most people, at least, but there are some that do well in any environment.

Steve Hochberg 32:48
give out your website. Sure. It’s www dot Elliot wave calm. That’s two L’s and two T’s and Elliot and it’s one word, Elliot wave calm got it. ton of free stuff on the website explains what Elliot waves are some free commentary, you can kind of click around and see if it makes sense for you.

Jason Hartman 33:07
Hey, Steve, one last question. I forgot to ask you. Where are you located?

Steve Hochberg 33:10
We’re in Gainesville, Georgia, which is about an hour northeast of Atlanta. Yep, I know.

Jason Hartman 33:15
Good, good stuff. Well, hey, thanks for joining us today and be safe out there and happy investing.

Steve Hochberg 33:20
Same to you and all your listeners be safe.

Jason Hartman 33:26
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