Today’s guest is Anne Hendershott, author of Politics of Envy. Jason Hartman and Anne talk about the envy farm, social media, and how it’s creating tremendous anxiety, which causes more harm than good. Anne also distinguishes between bullying and envy-driven cancel culture and also connects marxism to envy.
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Welcome to the Holistic Survival show with Jason Hartman. The economic storm brewing around the world is set to spill into all aspects of our lives. Are you prepared? Where are you going to turn for the critical life skills necessary to survive and prosper? The holistic survival show is your family’s insurance for a better life. Jason will teach you to think independently to understand threats and how to create the ultimate action plan. sudden change or worst case scenario, you’ll be ready. Welcome to holistic survival, your key resource for protecting the people, places and profits you care about in uncertain times. Ladies and gentlemen, your host, Jason Hartman.
Jason Hartman 1:00
It’s my pleasure to welcome Anne Henderson. She is the author of the Politics of Envy. Wow, this is a timely topic, and welcome. How are you?
Anne Hendershott 1:08
I’m great. Thank you. Thanks for having me. I’m happy to talk about this.
Jason Hartman 1:11
My pleasure. Where are you located?
Anne Hendershott 1:13
I’m in Connecticut right now. But I’m teaching at Franciscan. But in Ohio, but I’m teaching online. So I’m working out in my office here in Connecticut, we have a summer home that became a winter home now.
Jason Hartman 1:25
That’s true for a lot of people leaving leaving idle areas, which, you know, I’m sure that’s something we’ll touch on in our talk today. And so when did this all start? You know, I really started to notice a lot of this class envy being exploited during the Obama era. But I’m sure it goes back a lot further than that. And it’s probably always been true throughout human history to one extent or another. Give us a little bit of a history, if you would,
Anne Hendershott 1:51
Well, yeah, you’re right, it goes back to the Bible. You know, Adam and Eve. For me, envy is the original sin, you know, Satan saying you can be like God, and you see it throughout literature, Shakespeare really drew on it. But it has become I mean, I call it a culture of envy. And so it has permeated politics. You know, politics, as you say on your show, I’m sure politics is downstream from culture. And right now we’re experiencing a culture of envy. And there’s a lot of reasons for that. And part of it is social media. And part of is this, I don’t know, this populism that was started under Obama. And both sides embrace it. I don’t want to say it’s just the the liberal progressives, but because politics is downstream from culture, this envy culture that is permeating everything is really making everything toxic. And you saw it with Obama, like you said, that joe the plumber thing? Or just like, Oh, you did? Yeah. And he didn’t hate rich people. But Obama was hoping he would he assumed he would, because that was his message. You gotta hate rich people. And that’s all envy. And AOC has taken it to a new level. And her whole staff and she has a staff member that his Twitter handle is every billionaire is a policy failure.
Jason Hartman 3:12
And, you know, it’s I think there’s kind of a distinction we have to make, because certainly the wealth gap, you know, no matter what part of the political spectrum you’re on, you have to admit it’s getting pretty drastic, right, as these huge businesses, these giant mega companies, these, you know, the big tech companies, Amazon and all the rest, I mean, we are creating, this is not wealth in the rich, this is the mega, mega, mega mega mega rich, okay? So, but it always seemed like America was the land where you would aspire to be successful. And you would, you would look at successful people as role models. Nowadays, though, we could go back to the the antitrust era and the robber barons and the Carnegie’s the melons and all of that. But, you know, I don’t know it. It’s it’s obviously a different world, but it’s the same world and no administration, really, for decades has had the appetite to do much in the way of antitrust, you know, so so we’re who’s envious of home, if you will, like, Is it is it that, you know, when you look at Nancy Pelosi and AOC, I mean, they are the elite class. They’re not as rich as Jeff Bezos and Mark Zuckerberg, but they are elitist for sure. I mean, Nancy Pelosi is very wealthy, who’s envying whom?
Anne Hendershott 4:34
Well, they hide it very well. AOC hides her privilege because she went to a very privileged high school. She lived in a privileged suburb of New York. She’s no, but she wants us to think that she’s more authentic than that. And Nancy Pelosi just, you know, she’s mega rich. But I think people are envious of people like Jeff Bezos. There was a guillotine that was erected outside his house. I don’t know if you spoke about that. Remember that story? Yeah. Yeah, that’s a real symbol of envy because it’s a symbol of the French Revolution. A lot of people kind of want to go back to that French Revolution days. And that getting I see that as a symbol of envy. For many people, there is the man who created it was a former employee. Yeah, right. Right.
Jason Hartman 5:18
Right. Well, so what are some of the narratives of envy there are? There are many of them, aren’t there?
Anne Hendershott 5:24
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Well, I have a whole chapter on narratives in literature when we’ve seen it throughout time. But even to the days of the robber baron, there was no golden age when there wasn’t envy. I mean, Wall Street was bombed in by an Italian anarchist, who was just envious and angry. At people having so much money in 1919, people seem to forget that there really was never a golden age, and the government has tried to confiscate wealth to try to even the play, but we’re never going to get rid of envy. I mean, people think, if there’s nothing left to envy, will do away with envy, and everybody will be happy. And the socialists,
Jason Hartman 6:03
There will always be something to envy,
Anne Hendershott 6:06
Always see something to envy. Even under the worst communist system, there were always those with more even when they marched into, like, in Nicaragua, when they took over the Sandinistas, they took over the most beautiful houses for themselves, the government people took those houses, everybody wants more. And it’s a sin that we really need to try to overcome. That’s what the book was trying to overcome.
Jason Hartman 6:30
Are there like three basic narratives here? or How many are there just give us a sampling of that.
Anne Hendershott 6:38
There are unlimited where envy is occurring. I see it in academia, I’m a professor. And there’s great amounts of envy over productivity, or by getting a better publisher. There’s always something to envy. It isn’t just money. It’s privileged. It’s having a better chair having a better office. And it’s something that we need to try to overcome. Everybody is faced with envy. Like I said, I think it’s the original sin, but I see it in the church. Pope Francis just came out with a new encyclical this week. And I see it is filled with nd In fact, one of the subsections of his document quotes the French Revolution, I would say he’s channeling Robespierre in some ways. It’s this subsection is entitled, liberty, equality, and fraternity. Now anybody who’s red tailed, you see that all over the tale of two cities, that was their motto, that was their slogan, as they pulled up the guillotine. Now, why do we, for instance, do that except to gin up and be? And it was I call it a kind of an October surprise, in a way, but you see it everywhere. This Twitter, former CEO of Twitter just posted that if CEOs are not sufficiently woke, he didn’t use that word. If they’re not, you know, interested in social justice, they should be lined up and shot. Now that’s really, really something. I argue that he’s envious. He’s got plenty of money, this guy, right. But he used to work for Twitter, he got fired. He says he didn’t get fired, but Computerworld and everybody else says he got fired a few years ago. And I think he’s just cheering from the sidelines. He doesn’t like people to be happy. And that’s what you see. And then it’s woven throughout social media. Social media is really like envy farms. People just sow the seeds of envy all over social media. So guys end everywhere
Jason Hartman 8:32
So with the ultra wealthy CEOs and the Hollywood hypocrites and so forth. Are they exploiting this just as a way to advance their position? Or are they atoning for what they view as their sins of capitalism? You know, I’ve always wondered where that comes from. I mean, even Warren Buffett a hypocrite, another hypocrite. You know, I mean, he says, I pay less in taxes than my secretary does. Well, you know, yet he’s in a lawsuit with the IRS, you know, not wanting to pay them more. And and, and what he fails to mention is that the IRS will accept more money, they will not turn it down. He’s Welcome to pay more. So he just seems just massively hypocritical. And you hear it over and over? Where do you think that comes from? It’s at the atoning for the sins of capitalism, the sins of success in their own mind or to advance their position.
Anne Hendershott 9:28
I think some of it is a form of guilt, I mean, others a new book out white guilt, and I think that’s part of it. The NBA, you know, they’re like the wealthiest people around, they make lots of money. And I think there’s some of that, that other people are not doing as well as they are and they’re very generous. I mean, LeBron James is very generous. I don’t want to take anything away from him. But I think that’s part of it to tone for the sins of capitalism. There never been
Jason Hartman 10:01
I have my own answer to this. But I’m going to ask you in the political arena, when politicians exploit the class envy concept, is that working as well, as you know, we might think when Pelosi and AOC and Hillary Clinton do that, or does that really backfire on them?
Anne Hendershott 10:20
It works with some generations, the young, the very young, they’re kind of a natural audience for this, because a lot of them have student debt, a lot of them are angry, because there’s too many old people in the workplace, and there’s not a spot for them. They think they can’t move fast enough. They’ve always been I mean, that generations always been the target generation for socialism. But magazines like the jacobin, you know, that’s a, that’s an up and coming magazine, you know, that’s a French Revolutionary term. And so that it’s geared to that generation. So yeah, it works with some, but they’re usually not the ones who are voting, but I think they maybe this time, it’s hard to say,
Jason Hartman 10:57
Interesting.
Anne Hendershott 10:58
Appeals to envy can work,
Jason Hartman 11:00
Social media, do you want to talk a little bit more about that? It’s such a huge factor in today’s world. You know, I think I understand the envy farm concept that you mentioned in that, you know, people are always posting how great their life is, and previously to COVID all their world vacations and so forth. But tell us more about the social media envy farms.
Anne Hendershott 11:22
Well, they’re all I mean, I think it’s creating tremendous anxiety. Every research study, read any poll of the college kids and young adults, they’re the most anxious generation we’ve had. And I think that anxiety comes from feeling they’re not measuring up, and so they’re anxious about it. I don’t see being at my school, I’m at a Catholic University. So I don’t see it as much. But I do see anxiety, I think that idea of not measuring up is a direct result of too much social media. But social media can be a good thing because it creates communities. But it can also be a bad thing. And the worst thing on social media are the experiences, it’s not so much people want the material things that other people have, that’s not the the source of the enemy. It’s the experiences, the love relationships, when you post yourself and your boyfriend, having this wonderful picnic. That’s just kills people. Part of it is in me, and part of it is just loneliness, too. I think social media has made us more lonely. But the whole idea, that’s why I call it envy for me, because people do that just so that people will envy them. Right. And that’s bad, too.
Jason Hartman 12:36
It’s interesting. I mean, you’d think social media would have the opposite effect in a lot of ways that it would create more community, less loneliness, but it less isolation, but it actually has put people into more cliques and those clicks or fears. divides pretty pretty harshly. It really does. You talking about how this culture of envy that we’re living in can be traced way back to the 50s. How’s that? Is that now is that 50s? America or 50s? around the world? Because I think that’s obviously pretty different.
Anne Hendershott 13:15
Yeah, 50s America, because we look at that time as a bucolic time when mom and dad were home, and everybody was happy in the suburbs. And it was I mean, there was there were some nice parts to that. But there was a book that came out on the other directed man during that time, you’ve probably never had to read it. But I’m a sociologist, so was a big book in sociology. riesman sociology, sociologist wrote it. And his idea was that this was a time when people went from being tradition oriented, worried about what God might think of them to other directed, worried about what their neighbors might think of them, and people at work might think of them. So right now we’re very worried about what other people think of us. And I see that as starting in the 50s. And social media exacerbates it, because that’s where we’re on display. There’s no backstage anymore. And sociologists, we talk about front stage backstage, and when we’re home, we can kind of be backstage. But with social media, we’re always on the front stage, always presenting ourselves in this favorable light. We always look great, we have good lighting, we always have the best dinner, we’re taking pictures of our dinner. I don’t know if that would be a joke if I took a picture of what I’ve cooked. But when you look at these elaborate meals, even grandmas like me get envious when we see grandmas with their children taking their grandchildren who see them every weekend and take care of them. I’m like, oh, mine are so far away, and I don’t see them. And so everybody, you know, we worry about that. And we think about that we think that everybody’s having a better life than we are. I mean, I don’t think that but sometimes I do get these little pains when I see other People live with great grandchildren with them all the time and minor ones in Florida ones in Massachusetts.
Jason Hartman 15:06
Well, what we have to remember about social media is that it’s basically advertising. When you see a billboard, it doesn’t show people in distress. Okay, it shows people happy advertising a product, right? You know, that’s, that’s what it is. It’s just a bunch of tiny little, you know, 2 billion ad agencies on Facebook people, right? So, so that’s what it is. But what you know, was the 50s, the start of the concept of keeping up with the Joneses, as the baby boomers were building their lives in suburbia, you know, they got the new car appliances became a big thing. You know, I mean, think of before World War Two, people didn’t have appliances, okay, in their homes very often. No, you know, appliances were like a big deal. You know, you had a refrigerator, a stove, and they were cool and modern, and the vacuum cleaner and you know, all of this stuff. And you know, I house car and before that it just wasn’t that way the world was very different. Before World War Two, we remember that, of course, we 20s. But that was extremely different than the baby boomer era. Yeah.
Anne Hendershott 16:15
But it’s not that one that was not typical. And it ended very abruptly with the depression. Like you’re right. Having things having things, conspicuous consumption, and there were several books written about that. The perfect living room, the perfect lamps, you know, Levittown was built in, you know, in the dream, and everybody’s living the dream, and everybody wanted to live and that was a good thing. I mean, there were a lot of good things about it. Sure, you know, silver and were well taken care of, for the most part, but I’m sure the anxiety must have been tremendous. Imagine if they have social media in those days. But I think it was the start of social media.
Jason Hartman 16:56
Interesting, interesting and wacky. One more concept. Well, maybe to bullying and envy driven cancel culture. Can you make a distinction for us there?
Anne Hendershott 17:07
There is an academia we have something called faculty mobbing or faculty and administrative mobbing. And in a lot of workplaces, you have that where people in the workplace are envious of a high achieving person. And they do everything they can because they don’t want to be reminded of their own mediocrity and they do everything they can to bring that person down. It’s driven by envy. And I, I write about several different cases at different universities. Because I know people that it’s happened to, it’s hard to tell you the truth. It often happens to high achieving administrators, presidents of universities who are wanting to make changes. And so this culture, I call it mobbing behavior because it really replicates bird mobbing in that Birdsall mob to get a big Hawk Down. Well Birdsall mob to get a high achieving Professor down people like Professor Tony esslyn, at Providence College was mobbed. The president of Mount St. Mary’s was mock president of UC Santa Cruz was mugged so badly, she ended up committing suicide. It happens a lot. And when I say mobbed, I mean they they mobilize and they just kind of pack them to death pretty much and drive them out of the university.
Jason Hartman 18:22
And we should note that Maxine Waters recommends this behavior publicly. It’s her official recommendation.
Anne Hendershott 18:31
And it’s just evil because it gives tremendous power to little people. Because if they mob, then they can bring even big people down. And that’s what they do. That’s the difference between built bullying is usually I had, you know, highly high status people going after, you know, little people. But mobbing is very different. And I think even more deadly.
Jason Hartman 18:54
Alright, Interesting. Interesting and same time. So last thing I want to ask you about is is the roots here in Marxism, there’s a connection between the politics of envy and Marxism.
Anne Hendershott 19:07
From the earliest days, Marx himself was a very envious man, you know much about his background, Paul kangar, just wrote a book published a wonderful new book on the devil and Karl Marx, he just felt that he was pretty demonic. And you don’t have to believe in the devil to think that Marx was pretty demonic, these very envious man, and I’ve read a lot about his life. And so he encouraged that kind of envy. They have too much you have too little we need to mobilize and take away what they have. And you’re seeing that today in the gear team, you’re saying and with this firing squad ridiculousness by the Twitter and CEO, that’s just crazy, but that’s Marxism. I mean, to me, the politics of envy always ends up with the guillotine. really does.
Jason Hartman 19:55
Yeah, it’s it’s scary stuff for sure. And give out your website or Twitter handle or whatever you’d like. Of course, the book will. By the time this is published, the book will be available in all the usual places. But what else would you
Anne Hendershott 20:08
Yeah. It’s already out today. Yeah, you can get it at Sofia institute.com or has it already, but thank you.
Jason Hartman 20:17
Anne Hendershott, thank you for joining us.
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